Audi Dealership Misdiagnosis (Head gasket)?

J

James-Sun

Member
Hi,

I would be most grateful for any views re my present situation with my local Audi dealership...

Back at the beginning of May my 2001 A2 TDI started to lose coolant via the filler/header tank safety valve. This unfortunately happened on the way back from a trip to Cornwall where the car lost most of it's coolant approx 90 miles from home. The AA man who assisted at the roadside noted a suspected water pump failure on the call out sheet but didn't rule out other possibilities such as the head gasket. The car was towed to our Local Audi Dealership for repair. After a distinct lack of communication from the dealership the car's waterpump, cambelt, tensioner and thermostat was replaced at a cost of £577.

The day before the car was ready I was contacted by one of the receptionists who stated the mechanic did not think the wear to the pump would cause the coolant loss problem but the car would be tested when everything had been put back together. I was told the next day that the work was completed and the car was ready for collection. I therefore assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the problem was solved.

Upon driving the car again it was clear that the problem was not solved (car losing coolant when the car is pushed at 60mph +) and by checking this forum came to the conclusion that the head gasket was the problem. The car therefore went back to Audi last Thursday where it took them until today to finally diagnose that the head gasket needs to be replaced and the quote for the repair given is £1230.

I am now unsure where I stand as it appears that a misdiagnosis has been made resulting in almost £600 worth of work that did not have to be done (In the descriptions of goods/services on the original invoice it states 'Carry out investigation into vehicle overheating' followed by replace water pump etc). I took the car to Audi in the first place thinking they would be the best people to deal with repair. I am due to visit the the dealership tomorrow to speak with the manager to discuss the situation. My view at the very least is that if I agree for them to do the head gasket repair, they should deduct the price of the original repair from the £1230 quote although i'm sure this is unlikely. I would certainly welcome anyones views as to what I should do.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this for reading this.
 
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Hi, I would certainly agree with your view, I would ask them to deduct the original charges made as it was their mistake and they should foot the bill for that. However in the real world unfortunately, you will probaberly have more chance of getting blood out of a stone than to get this from a stealership.

First I would go to the stealership and speak to them as planned. Then I would go to the local Citizens Advice Bereau to see where you stand on the matter. Do not get any further work done before getting legal advice first.
Did you pay by credit card? you may be protected by them.

Cheers

SARGE
 
Hi, thanks for your response. I did pay by credit card so that is one possible route to go down if a compromise cannot be reached.
 
Hi
Q. Was your cambelt due to be changed within the next 12 months?
If so, and the garage had got the diagnosis right in the first place it would have been sensible to have the cambelt, tensioner and waterpump replaced while they were doing the head gasket. On that basis, a reasonable compromise would be for you to pay for these parts and the garage deduct the labour part of your bill from the head gasket repair cost. As the car was run with a failed head gasket, the antifreeze should be changed as it will be contaminated with combustion gases. If your first bill included replacement antifreeze just make sure you don't pay again for it to be changed.

Cheers Spike
 
Hi,

The cam belt wasn't due for another 12,000 miles so probably 18 months worth of use before it needed to be replaced.
 
In that case I agree with Sarge advice. Stand your ground, the Audi dealership carelessness in the diagnosis should result in you being refunded for unnecessary work - (although they may argue that the car has been improved by their work) - in addition to the refund I'd be wanting a good will gesture for the proposed work if you stay with them.
You may also consider your position in terms of the confidence you have in their standard of work, and therefore insist you take your business to another dealer. This doenst weaken your position at all.

I'd also write to Audi UK Customer Services and tell the dealer you are doing so ( this isnt a threat - you are entitled to a level of service fropm them which has not been providied) Simply expalin your disatisfaction in what has occurred and you can then escalate this to a complaint if you are not happy with the outcome of your meeting with the manager.
I reckon Sarge comments are on the money. State your case and dont let the service manager waffle you.
If you are civil and reasonable I think this will work out well for you. They have made a mistake that has cost you money, and in respect of the fault, the car's still the same as when you first took it to them for repair.

Good luck :D
 
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I saw the service manager this morning and after a great deal of waffle, his view being that the water pump failure followed by the engine overheating is likely to have caused the head gasket issue, he agreed to reduce the cost of the head gasket repair by £400 to £831. Whilst this isn't ideal I decided to accept it to get things moving. He confirmed that there would be no extra charge for coolant etc and that his best Technician would do the work (more waffle I know!), he also agreed to cover the extra cost of the insurance on the courtesy car ( a very nice brand new A3) reducing the excess for any damage from a mere £1000 to £200! Let's just hope they don't find a crack in the cylinder head!

Thanks again for your helpful responses.
 
James-Sun said:
I saw the service manager this morning and after a great deal of waffle, his view being that the water pump failure followed by the engine overheating is likely to have caused the head gasket issue, he agreed to reduce the cost of the head gasket repair by £400 to £831. Whilst this isn't ideal I decided to accept it to get things moving. He confirmed that there would be no extra charge for coolant etc and that his best Technician would do the work (more waffle I know!), he also agreed to cover the extra cost of the insurance on the courtesy car ( a very nice brand new A3) reducing the excess for any damage from a mere £1000 to £200! Let's just hope they don't find a crack in the cylinder head!

Thanks again for your helpful responses.
Click to expand...

It's obvious that their at fault, otherwise would you have been able to get a penny from them? Well I hope it all works out for you. 'Best Technician'? that'll be the tea boy then ...LOL :D
 
First check if the fan is working

Make sure the fan works when car is warm and even though it works the day you check - continue to check it as it might go on/off because of oxide.

You should also replace the lid as that is less than 10€ (if you ask for the VW part). They sometimes lose their capability to hold the pressure thus letting the coolant out.

The garage should do like Spike said so ask them to check for combustion gases in the coolant before they do anything. They can also perform a "leak down test" as that reveal that and a lot more about your engine. Those two tests should absolutely give indication if the head gasket is leaking.

I was driving 6 months with this problem and in my case the car lost the water when I left the car. Even though the pressure was high enough to set the coolant alarm it was caused of high pressure - not low coolant. When I parked the car in weather above +10 the coolant started boiling after a few minutes. In colder weather the water level came up again thus the coolant alarm went away.

If your fan is broken you can repair it yourself. I wrote how I renovated mine in another thread as I thought 250€ (or something) for the electric motor was worth spending two hours (and you can easily do it in one if you want).

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
...I am wondering if something similar has happened to my car and has been the vain of my car problems of late?

My coolant is pretty much empty in the reservoir tank (can barely detect any signs of it as just above the outlet pipe from the bottle), took it to audi this morning for them to state that they wouldn't fill up the coolant or I couldn't put any in as it could affect my warranty. I have booked it in for tomorrow and am hoping it's not the head gasket! :eek:

What would the symptoms be as I am wondering if this maybe the most probable cause now of my car playing up???


Cheers,

M
 
Hi M
I can't see any logic in the Audi dealer not topping up the antifreeze. If you were not going back tomorrow I'd definitely recommend you do so asap. Its quite rare to see head gasket failures on petrol cars so with a bit of luck you may just be loosing coolant from a damaged radiator or the waterpump seal.
If it turns out to be the waterpump, its sensible to have the cambelt, tensioner and any idler pulleys replaced at the same time. You may have to pay for all the parts except the pump as they probably would not be covered by the warranty

Cheers Spike
 
Thank Spike,

My cambelt and water pretensioner is due anyhow but was going to book it in with Stoke audi... will see what my local audi say tomorrow. Do you think it will be an issue to leave the cambelt for a week or two if they do fix a coolant leakage problem tomorrow???

I think my coolant has been low for quite a while. I remember asking audi to check back in jan/feb time and they said it was fine and it wasn't until I mentioned it too Sarge that he stated that the bottle was nigh on empty....! the thing is that the coolant bottle has looked the same (i.e. couldn't see any fluid level through the bottle for all of this time!!! :eek:!)

M
 
Have you noticed any puddles Mik?

If not, then a head gasket is the main culprit, but it might not be too bad, if the failure is between a cylinder and a water channel, as opposed to an oil channel.

This may also have a knock on effect on the cat (you said it was rattling recently?) and if so, this is one time you should be glad of the warranty.

I can't understand them saying they wouldn't top up the fluid, as it may well cause further damage, but can understand their reluctance at you topping up, as you might use something other than the recommended coolant.

If they do fix the leak and it's not linked to the head gasket (i.e. there's no need to touch the water pump), then you'll be fine to run around for a couple of weeks until you can get to Stoke.

However, you might be able to swing a deal with them: if they are in and around the engine doing warranty work (for which they will absorb most of the labour charges), it might be attractive for them to do a nice price on the cambelt/water pump/tensioner whilst they're at it, as they can recoup the lost labour costs this way, and you'll get a decent (at least matching Stoke) price too!

Win win situation, and UBE gets better in the process.

Cheers

Mike
 
Thanks Mike,

Will try and discuss with them tomorrow then. I was going to buy coolant from the parts guy at the audi garage so was a bit baffled by the silly ladies comments. :confused:

Will see what tomorrow brings...

M
 
oh, and no puddles - just that orange crystalised stuff around that pipe clip (back off centre right of engine bay)
 
Yes, I remeber that now you mention it (I see so many A2 engine bays, so forget distinguishing features from time to time!!).

As you say, see what tomorrow brings, but fingers crossed!

Cheers,

Mike
 
Ha, should of known that my local audi garage would have been utter rubbish. Well to be fair the Customer Service Staff for Servicing could do with going on some Customer Service Courses as the bare minimum! ...what do they do other than regurgitate the mechanics words or give you completely wrong advise and throughout come across as being arrogant, stuck up, snoby and a complete waste of space/airheads. Not only that to add more insult to injury, she proceeds to tell me can not get it fixed until maybe next week. Will need to order in parts and they will have to keep my car in until then as not feasible to drive. I already told her I needed it to go to Sheffield on Sunday and then states that if I wanted my car fixed before then, I would have to pay a £5 per item special delivery charge for every part she claims was required with still no garantee of having the car ready for friday!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I see other customers not being treated as I've always have been by them and others worse. They are completely discriminating on what seems like personal grounds! The parts guy, receptionist and some of the mechanics - not a problem, absolute gems. Just 2 stupid women with a power trip ego!!! :mad:

Needless to say I am now looking at getting the pipe replaced off my own steam. Only a leak from where it is evident of leakage, radiator and waterpump all ok.

...I've also phoned Stoke Audi who are going to call my local garage and there they actually spoke to me as a person rather than down at me!!!!

btw, called up audi uk warranty and relayed the info this particular woman stated about not filling up the coolant etc was complete bulls**t!

Oh, bought coolant from the parts guy anyway (even though this women protested again I couldn't do) but audi uk stated that even if reservoir tank empty another reservoir tank is incorporated so no damage would have been caused to the engine anyway as no warning lights came on!!! ...drove off, pulled up round the corner to refill only to find the mechanic(s) have blooming filled it up anyhow!!! Confirms my thoughts of her being an over-rated airhead...!

...ok rant over. :eek:
 
Oh dear - sorry to hear you're having troubles Mik. Had to giggle though, its just as well you're a lass or you'd be getting our fellow female members riled about your comments on the customer service staff - I am sure you knew much more anout your A2 than they did because youre an A2OC member. Clearly they decided they knew better than you it seems ---- big mistake! :D

Good luck, I hope it all works out. :)
 
...thanks Murdo,

I didn't hold back in telling her (under controlled measures of course as didn't want to let her know I was more than slightly perturbed with her) in relaying the information collected from audi uk, the forum etc to which no surprise she couldn't comment. She looked more than a tad perplexed but also dumbly blank! Politely declined the ridiculous offer of them keeping the car until possibly sometime next week. Rubbed it in a bit more by cheerily saying thanks and cheerio with no response from her before walking over to the parts guy.

The parts guy had a wrile smile on his face though - ho hum, made me feel only slightly better at her ineptitude..

Just let of steam out of her sight and knowledge! :D

..either way Stoke Servicing are going to add more salt to her potential wounds by asking for a breakdown of the problems as I am looking at booking my car in with them!!!

If I get a break down of the parts, will try and ascertain what these are and go in and order the necessary parts from the parts guy... (but that would just be a little vindictive now!!! :D:D:D:D)

Took a look and don't think it looks like a major issue to change the pipe (2 pipes with a connector where the leak is occuring at this point) running from the resevoir tank and am contemplating in attempting to fix it myself.

Would just need to figure out how to drain out the coolant safely as thought may as well change all the coolant whilst at it and top up with new as will have to drain some out anyhow and just for good management/practice!?!

Does anyone know how much coolant the system takes for a complete change???
 
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Hiya Mik,

I'll stick to practical help here, as you've got the Audi warranty people involved already (get Audi UK in on the case too), why not ask them for a courtesy car whilst UBE is in the workshop!

Anyhow, draining coolant:

Coolant1.jpg



Refilling:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b163/skipton01/Coolant2.jpg


Note that Audi are a little coy on the amount of coolant needed, but get 3 litres of G12 and if you need any more, top up with distilled water.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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