Audi S3 engine in an A2

J

JWB

Member
Hi Guys,

Wondering anyone can help me. I want to know if there is room under the bonnet for a 2.0 TFSI 261 hp engine from an s3? Engine code BHZ. I'm planning to use a S3 gearbox too (Yes I know its a quattro, I won't need the transfer box too, lol). Maybe a box from the 197hp CCZA/CAWB engine.

has anyone tried this before? I think 0-60 would be around 5.0 and top speed over 150 mph.

I know there would be alot of work involved but, I just havent had access to check if it fits? anyone know?

Thanks alot guys ;)

James
 
A 1.8T has been done in Germany and its a massive job, i added some pics of the fit taken from the German A2 owners club web site

Cheers Phil
 
Just to add the 1.8T i think if i remember right had to be de-tuned to below 200bhp(not sure will have to check) as they couldn't put the power down

Phil
 
If you can make a quattro A2 I'll be impressed. You'll need it with 261bhp and all the torque that goes with it!
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

The pictures were impressive, I'm sure the engine would fit now. Looks like the radiator would have to be at the front end of the engine on the drivers right side, but might leave room for a thin intercooler down at the bottom grills. The impact bars look too tight though.

I'm guessing the 1.8T is from a TT or old A3? :confused:

Anyway no worries huys Ive sen a 400bhp FWD polo before today lol. He better just try starting in 3rd though lol.
 
The 2.0 TFSI is so flexible it can be a 200bhp engine in the golf or easily tuned to over 300bhp. My friend is running 295 whp after a fixed map. Another running ~320whp with additional breathing mods. They don't even have the bigger S3 intercooler in the Cupra! The same engine from S3 is probably more expensive then one from the 'lesser' VAG models. I do like that engine a lot.

But I doubt you'll get all of the 261bhp when it is fitted in an A2. So let's assume it is unfavorable cooling, pipe runs, intake and exhaust under the cramped A2 bonnet, you're probably looking closer to 200bhp? If that's the case, a remapped 1.8T already does that. More to the point, the smaller, lighter 1.4TSI (twin charged version) is 160 from factory and revo claimed to have 200 on the RR. I haven't studied it, but I suspect it would be far easier to mount that 1.4 in an A2!

But if you aim for a 250+ A2 then I must ask politely, wouldn't that be horrible to drive? Would you remodel the wheel arches and widen the track, run fat tyres? rear drums, would you make them discs too?
 
The 1.4 "twin-charged" may be smaller than the 2.0, may be not...
Moreover, there's not just the turbo, but also the mechanical compressor to fit under the A2 bonnet. That means a lot of pipework headache :)

And what about ECU & wiring loom ? Clocks ?
 
Whilst i admire the engineering involved in some of these projects one also has to ask, why? I like the idea of a 'Q' car but this seems as though someone is simply trying to concoct a project for the sake of it! I also think the power/performance is stretching the chassis capabilities without some serious work on brakes etc.

A fast A2 is a great idea, personally if I had the sort of money this is likely to involve I would go down the diesel route of a 150bhp output from largervturbo etc etc.
 
JWB said:
Thanks for the replies guys.

The pictures were impressive, I'm sure the engine would fit now. Looks like the radiator would have to be at the front end of the engine on the drivers right side, but might leave room for a thin intercooler down at the bottom grills. The impact bars look too tight though.

I'm guessing the 1.8T is from a TT or old A3? :confused:

Anyway no worries huys Ive sen a 400bhp FWD polo before today lol. He better just try starting in 3rd though lol.
Click to expand...

You've got to remember the polo is a heavier car, and has alot more room under the bonnet.

Now if you was fitting it in the rear:eek:;):cool:

Phil
 
fbi said:
The 1.4 "twin-charged" may be smaller than the 2.0, may be not...
Moreover, there's not just the turbo, but also the mechanical compressor to fit under the A2 bonnet. That means a lot of pipework headache :)

And what about ECU & wiring loom ? Clocks ?
Click to expand...

You're not wrong two chargers are not going to be a straight swap. but I've seen the TSI in a golf GT and that isn't too big, except there is an odd piece sticking out of the back of engine towards the cabin. Besides, TDI has a turbo so that helps as example sorting one of the chargers! In comparison, under the same bonnet, the 2.0TFSI is much bigger. But yes, clocks, ECU and abs ...etc will also be a concern.
 
Where to start lol? Well I know there are alot of other engines, but I can get a nearly new s3 engine for very cheap (lets say below £500). So thats the main reason I wanted to know if it will fit. Only thing is it WILL fit with the rad next to the drivers side wheel (In front of the engine), but it looks like the front crumple zone would have to be cut into. Which is of course not a great thing lol.

Traction? 261hp and 258 ft lbs of torque is not alot lol. Wider and stickier tyres, the weight of the engine (around 157kg! not including gearbox weight...) and the traction control would be easily enough. Think of a Oldsmobile Tornado lol 385bhp and fwd! Rwd drive cars have more power and less weight over the wheels as most are front wheel drive.

Chassis, yep I agree alot of stress, but it could surely take it especially as aluminium is I'm sure alot stronger than normal steel.

Biggest problem in my mind would be cutting off/into the crumple zones.

James

(sorry about any grammar, been a long day today lol)
 
JWB said:
Traction? 261hp and 258 ft lbs of torque is not alot lol. Wider and stickier tyres, the weight of the engine (around 157kg! not including gearbox weight...) and the traction control would be easily enough.
Click to expand...

I hope your tyre budget is big then, you'll be smoking them rather regularly I fear :rolleyes:

Seriously, the A2's chassis is not dynamically that great for getting loads of torque down on the road - the engine's too high and too far forward, there's not enough weight over the front wheels, the suspension geometry is fairly non-sophisticated and the traction control is very much designed for the nanny nanny approach rather than the "letting you play with lots of slip so you can drift" style of driving. Even with 215s on my car I will get wheelspin pretty easily if I provoke it and that's with a (admittedly remapped, but only to 110PS) 1.4TDi.

But please enjoy yourself, it sounds a fun project especially if you've been able to source the engine for such little £££.

Just wish someone would go the whole hog and re-engineer the car to have quattro drive, that would be very impressive :cool:
 
quattro would definately be the holy grail for the car. AUDI why didnt you make it!!! Not enough room is not an excuse.

Lol I wheelspin with a 1.4 petrol stock. No chance of me trying to drift a fwd car anyway :(
 
Been tring to find the thread on the German forum, as its got some great photo's. Not only with the engine fit but all the electrics that they had to sort out (which looks more of a problem than the engine fit). plus have you read the thread on here about the problems with the 6 speed fit, which looks like you could have similar problems with the gearbox with the S3.


As i said before they struggled with the grip and stopping the front wheels spinning and just lighting the tyres up, just think it would be alot of hard work for not that good a result (when you think Tanks got about the same torque from a 1.4 TDi)


Cheers Phil
 
Without going into details of alloy composition as well as structural design, I am naturally concerned if you think aluminum is 'alot stronger' than steel...
 
So I believe, the 1.8t out of the Polo will pritty much go straight into the bay of an A2. Helped by the fact it has the smaller KO3 turbo. With the larger KO4 turbo the bulkhead would require modifying to accomodate the turbo. I have seen the 2.0 TFSI engine next to a BAM engine with the mentioned KO4 turbo and the turbo on the TFSI sticks out even further than the KO4. You could always get a custom manifold made and sit the turbo over the gearbox. A limited slip diff would be essential for this level of conversion.

Anything is possible and never say can't.

Regards Malcolm
 
Why not get a 1.6 fsi, re-bore port and polish to a 1.8 and stick a turbo on it or just stick a turbo on the 1.6 fsi, those little vauxhall corsa vxr's are the nuts! If I didn't like my a2 so much Id get one of those, I no its a different engine but the little 1.6t is a monster and sounds great, anyway thats probably less hassle than a big engine change isn't it?????? thats along the lines of where I'm going just need to look into it and see how costly how reliable and how much hassle it would be:D
 
Guess I'll have to check on other engines. sad really because a s3 engine with less than 1,000 miles on it and an older gearbox was going for about £550 :eek:
 
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