Bottom line?

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Karcsi

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I'm test driving a TDI and FSI tomorrow at Battersea Audi in London to find out for myself (at last) whether I would want to own one.

So, assuming I like what I experience, what is the bottom line? Is ownership better or worse than that of the average car?

Unless the FSI wins me over, I'm aiming to buy a 2002 model TDI SE(51/02) for less than £12,000. 2003 models go for £14,000 or less. Would it be worth the additional £2,000 for the differences between the 2002 and 2003 models? What are they again; other than the larger fuel tank and the now infamous windscreen wiper?

Considering that this ickle car is aimed at high mileage drivers, the vast majority of the used models have less than 10,000 miles on them. Would it be worth seeking out a high mileage car, not only because it would be much cheaper and my low miles will even it out over time, but because it's more likely that it was owned by a real person (not part of a fleet leased by audi dealerships) and so would have bother to pick up on its little foibles?


Ta
 
From a girlie point of view, non of that technical jargon, you will be chuffed to bits with an A2. I love the style and the build quality. I looked at loads of cars and settled on the Merc A Class or the A2. I test drove the A Class and I came home thinking "plastic" The interior was rubbish and after talking discreetly to a mechanic it really was a non starter.

What I love about Audi is that there is a standard across the range; so what is in a TT sport is in the A2 sport (interior I mean not the engine or anything!), they don't cut corners here.

I know everyone has there gripes, so do I, but I can honestly say that it was a brilliant buy. If you consider the1000's of cars sold there are going to be a few that fail somewhere. I need something practical and nippy, I am a photographer and often put gear in and out, the seats fold down easily and the luggage floor is great to hide stuff away under. I also read that Audi scores 98% on a security level, only being let down by the fact that you can get into the boot from the interior.

Check out what A2's are already out there, mine was new but it was pre-built to a certain spec and got a really good deal, effectively got leather and rear electric windows free!

Fi

2002 TDi Sport Cobalt Blue
 
Karsci

I take it the FSI would be more dosh, so money comes into it. But there are a few used FSI's coming out now so you may be OK.

The diesel is more powerful than you think, and I went for the petrol due to mainly town driving so I wanted refinement. I'm not sure if the fuel tank was made bigger for the 2003 diesel, it may just have been petrol. But any 2003 model A2 should have the revised wiper-tell the dealer if it doesn't as Audi made a mess up of that one!.

At least if you buy used you can test drive the thing to check for any dodgy build-something I couldn't do in both my A2's as they were new (and unforunately without faults).

If your going used do shop around as add-ons don't always add on that much to the prices!.

Steve - 2002 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior, Then an identical replacement 2003 A2. Now a Toyota Corolla 1.6 T-Spirit
 
I test drove a FSI this evening. I wanted to test drive a TDI also, but there was not one available (although Battersea have two used TDI's advertised, so I don't know why I could not have test driven one of them?). Any how, he said that the TDI was a dog of an engine, and that unless I was doing lots and lots of miles, I should not even consider it!! Wow, what a sales pitch!

Test drive was ok. Engine is pretty good. Don't know about the chassis as it was a pretty short run and in central London (not opportunity to take it fast round some corners). Suspension was surprisingly stiff considering it was only an SE and not the Sport version.

I noticed the clutch pedal vibration straight away. Told the salesman. He said he hadn't noticed it before and didn't know what it was. Then it became worse, enough so that he could feel it through his feet. I have a feeling that it has something to do with the engine management system as the vibration is not always there. If you are accelerating it disappears, and then reappears once you have stood idling the engine for a little while. It can be so bad that you would have thought there was a diesel engine under the hood, and shaking the whole car. It feels almost as if the clutch plate was warped, but can't be because it comes and goes.

I have a feeling that the engine is somehow reducing fuel consumption by missing out combustion cycles when the engine is idling or you are mostly coasting along (using less power), and so could be destablising the engine as it is not doing properly to balance out the recoil forces of those cylinders that do fire and those that don't. Does anyone out there have some knowledge on how the FSI works, with its varying camshaft etc? I wonder whether A4 FSI drivers have discovered the same "characteristic".



I am still intent on test driving the TDI, despite what he said - I have a feeling he was trying it on. He only offered me a £200 discount on a new FSI, when I know that Tins offers more than £600 as standard.
 
Karci

The FSI engine works on the same principle as Mitsubishi's GDI engine - the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder (hence Gasoline Direct Injection - not sure where FSI comes from) instead of conventional engines where it is injected into the inlet manifold to mix with the air as it moves into the cylinder.

The up side is more power/efficiency, the catch is that this injection process is similar to the diesel engine where fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. I think combustion is still initiated by spark on the FSI rather than the heat of the compressed air (as diesel) but the similarities in the fuel injection/combustion process may explain why the FSI sometimes, as you report, sounds and feels like a diesel.

See http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/fsi/content2.shtml

http://www.schwab-kolb.com/audi0010.htm also explains more about the ppart load behaviour. - Ian

Ian

2002 1.4 Petrol SE, silver with climate control.
Why are all the A2s in Lichfield are silver ? ? ?
 
The salesman is definetely trying it on - the TDi is a cracking wee engine and if I got an A2 again it would be the TDi. It's not the most refined but you get used to it and it's pretty nippy once the car is moving.

Obviously needs to shift the FSi more than the TDi. Demand a test drive in the TDi or go elsewhere.

As concerning the suspension I noticed quite a difference in ride quality over the standard A2 and the SE due to the lower profile tyres (don't know if the suspension differs). However the SE wheels look so much better than the standard ones so it might come down to pose value in the end. If you can, try a standard A2 as It's worth seeing the difference for yourself.

Jamie.
 
I agree that the TDi is not as refined as the FSI, but nippy in the lower gears etc, I bought the fsi and after 5,000 miles I'm not disapointed. You get used to the characteristics wich are different to any other car, obvioulsy as it is! I found that the car needs to be driven, if you treat it like an old guys car it'll act like one, but by driving the car with more confidence it responds, but overall I get 40mpg although sometimes reaching 105mph without noticing! I wouldn't agree that the salesman is trying to get rid of the car because it's dodgy or something they might need to sell more but he's not selling you a lemon, the TDI has proven a flagship and really popular, but don't let this put you off. I test drove both cars tdi and fsi back to back three times, (really nice sales people) then made a decision on a toss of a coin nearly, although with me it was down to refinment and less noise. Today I'm still smiling, haggle away I'd say, if you lose go to another dealer!

A2 1.6fsi sport climate cd amulet red
 
Thanks guys.

I did read on a german website something about the change when there is low load on the engine. But it did not mention what happens then. I had thought maybe in effect some of the cylinders were "shut down" and hence the vibration as the recoil forces are not balanced out on the engine. All it means is, that combustion happens close to the top of the cylinder rather than spread throughout evenly. Could be the reason.

The engine is great once it is on normal mode: slightly strange sound to it, but refined non-the-less.

I will defo try out the TDI. I like lots of torque in mid range, and a lower revs when at motorway speeds. The FSI may be powerful, but perhaps too spin happy (judging by yesterday test drive it would be spinning at 4000 when doing 80mph), and a bit slow to react if you suddenly want some power (perhaps because of this low load to full load operation change).

He not only was desperate to put me off the TDI, but he insisted that there were hardly any 2nd hand FSI's about, and I would be better off ordering a new one.

K
 
Karcsi

How long did you have the car for on test drive? When I went to my dealer he asked me how long I wanted it for. I said 4 or 5 hours and he said fine, take it all day if you want, but we do need prior notice if you want it over night! That was great, it meant that I could take it all over the place without the route layed out by the salesman, put it thru it's paces. I suggest that if your dealer is sodding you about, go somewhere else!

Fi

2002 TDi Sport Cobalt Blue
 
No. It was just a very short 20 minute job. Not nearly enough to get to know the car. I will phone up one of my local dealers and ask them for a long test drive - London is not cut out for such things.

How's your TDI? Noise, I expect, it's after all a small engined diesel. I'm more concerned about mid range power and how noisey it is on the motorway. Can do neither of those things in London traffic!

K
 
Karcsi,

The dealer (acording to Audi sales information) should make a car available to you, given 2 days notice. My dealer let me take the car first thing one morning to be returned by 5pm same day, had a good chance to experience all types of driving. I have now had my 1.4 TDI SE for 2 days and am using it to commute over the M62 Manchester to Leeds and back 33 miles each way. Yes you are aware it's a diesel, but only just, the power is excellent and I can honestly say that it is more responsive than my ex Saab 900 2.0i (130bhp) which was no slouch. The noise is hardly worth worrying about, the only hard part is learning to use the 4000 revs, but I think I am getting the hang of it after 25 years of driving with petrol. Oh and yes, people don't like being passed by 1.4 TDI's (honest I'm taking it steady for the first 500 miles) but that's their problem!!!

Andrew - 2003 1.4 TDI Silver Climate
 
Karsci,

I agree with Fiona, try to get both the FSI and TDI out for a much longer demo ride. This will then give you the opportunity of jumping onto the M25, and accessing its cruising abilities.

I only drove a TDI for 2 days, and as I previously commented when cruising at 80mph it’s almost impossible to know what engine sits under the bonnet. That said when compared to a standard A2 petrol model (or indeed a Golf PD130) the TDI is for me very noisy at city driving speeds. Alas I still maintain that the general sound insulation and air turbulence noise of the A2 is not that brilliant in comparison to other cars.

Other FSI owners on the forum are far better placed to provide you with facts via their experiences, but I have seen comment in the past of both the clutch and brake pedal transmitting a vibration – so I tend to feel that this failing is probably par for the course.

Personally I have always felt that the A2 is better off on the motorway in comparison to town/city streets with their pot holes, lumps and bumps – which I always found made for a very uncomfortable drive. This I expect is as much down to the low profile tyres as anything else, and this I say when my Golf PD130 can travel down the same roads as the A2 with the ride/comfort level being poles apart. For sure low profile tyres visually look great, but they are a pain on many British roads when it comes to comfort.

Regards
John Disdale
 
Totally agree John, but it was pain vs vain with me, vain won, so skinny tyres it was!

Karsci, yes it is noisy when it idles or when you race off, but general motoring I don't notice. My other half has an Allroad Quattro, I know it's petrol but it is silent at idle and pulling away. It sounds great from outside, but personally I'd like to hear the grunt as a driver!

The only other niggle I have is there is a bit of a blind spot caused by the front pillar, between the windscreen and quarter light; nearly bashed a Lupo thae other day when the pillar totally hid the Lupo at a roundabout! But it's just something you get used to.

Fi

2002 TDi Sport Cobalt Blue
 
quote:Originally posted by jmckie1

The salesman is definetely trying it on - the TDi is a cracking wee engine and if I got an A2 again it would be the TDi. It's not the most refined but you get used to it and it's pretty nippy once the car is moving.

Obviously needs to shift the FSi more than the TDi. Demand a test drive in the TDi or go elsewhere.

As concerning the suspension I noticed quite a difference in ride quality over the standard A2 and the SE due to the lower profile tyres (don't know if the suspension differs). However the SE wheels look so much better than the standard ones so it might come down to pose value in the end. If you can, try a standard A2 as It's worth seeing the difference for yourself.

Jamie.
Click to expand...
 
HELP my A2 TDi has fallen to bits and i understand that you had the same misfortune. I didnt even bother to test drive my a2 before purchasing it "what an idiot". Has anyone else you know done such a thing!!!!You dont even drive an A2 now, so i am probably asking the wrong person for advice. In fact who do you think you are giving all these people advice when you only had an A2 for 3 months. I find you quite misleading!!!!!


ps. Seat Leon alloys for sale. excellent cond. 2 months old £300 with tyres
quote:Originally posted by jmckie1

The salesman is definetely trying it on - the TDi is a cracking wee engine and if I got an A2 again it would be the TDi. It's not the most refined but you get used to it and it's pretty nippy once the car is moving.

Obviously needs to shift the FSi more than the TDi. Demand a test drive in the TDi or go elsewhere.

As concerning the suspension I noticed quite a difference in ride quality over the standard A2 and the SE due to the lower profile tyres (don't know if the suspension differs). However the SE wheels look so much better than the standard ones so it might come down to pose value in the end. If you can, try a standard A2 as It's worth seeing the difference for yourself.

Jamie.
Click to expand...
 
Message for Admin - Please accept my apologies and delete the user A2boyracer as he is one of my numbskull colleagues who thought it would be funny to set up a login and mock me at my A2 misfortune and subsequent car purchases.

He is quite funny but otherwise of no use to this forum.

Regards,

Jamie.
 
Boyracer,

I would have thought Jamie’s 3 month ownership of an A2 was worth volumes in comparison to say someone who has only ever test driven an A2 for a few minutes. What however I do trust that you also appreciate is that Jamie has also experienced the “Audi” standards of service.

Regards
John Disdale
 
I've arranged to test drive both A2's tomorrow with my local dealer. Again he was a bit uncertain whether he had a TDI demonstrator(!). Considering they also have a couple of TDI's on sale as secondhand models, I don't know what the problem would be in trying them. I wonder whether there is a conspiracy to push the FSI and lay off the TDI?

I asked for an hour with each, but he insisted that he had to come along with me and so I could only drive them for half an hour each (perhaps because I didn't have a car to stay with him for security, and I must sound a bit dodgy!). Anyway, it should still give me a better idea than a round the block trip in London rush hour.

He also asked whether I would be placing an order on the day if I liked the car. I was hardly going to say "No, I'm really after a much cheaper secondhand model because I wouldn't like you offering me pocket change when I came to part exchange it in a year's time"!
 
If this is the treatment the dealer gives you before they have sold you a car I would be very wary of how they will treat you once they have sold you a car. Are there any other dealers you can go to within a reasonable distance?

Does anyone know if different dealers have different test drive policies even if they sell the same brand or is this decided by the brand manufacturer? I would think you could get an extended, unnacompanied test drive from any dealer if you really want one.

Jamie.
 
This is Hitchin, which is 13 miles from me. Then there is Bedford (7 miles), Cambridge (20 miles)...I could go one. I like in Sandy, Beds and am spoilt for choice. However, I don't have a car and Hitchin is the easiest and quickest to get to.

Anyway, if I did order a new one it would not be from any other dealership but the one in Worcester. When I first went there to ask about the A2 he said that there were lots of unregistered cars about with good savings, and that I would be better off with he A3 if it was residuals that I was woryying about. Also, they have been exemplary in their customer service towards by parents who bought an A4 from them in 2001.
 
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