Collecting a new A2 from the factory

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My last sentence was just to show that anyone can make a flippant remark drawn out of thin air.

However, those building Astons/Rollers/Bentleys are hardly retrained ex-farmers putting together mass produced cars. Then again, nor are the Hungarians ex-farmers either. Hungary has reputed to have one of the highest concentrations of highly educated and skilled workers in Europe (although the last government has nicely put paid to that with their policy of investing public money on filling their own pockets rather than education). Labour costs are much lower in countries Romania, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, and the Balkan states, but it is no coincidence that manufacturers are not fighting each other to relocate there. Audi reportedly looked at 180 locations before choosing Hungary.

And it's not just the manufacture industry that is using Hungarian labour. Many of the largest pharmaceutical companies, such as GlaxoSmithKline, have they European research centres based in Hungary.

Just because labour is cheap it does not automatically follow that they must be unskilled. Undoubtedly, many of the employees of Philips and other home entertainment manufacturers (including Microsoft and the Xbox) do use unskilled labour. But I haven't heard of problems with their quality of workmanship.


I think it is very sad that companies back stab practically their own kith and kin for a quick buck. But that's market forces for you. And it doesn't help when, even being one of the highest paid workers in the world, your workers decide to strike.

Mercedes Benz did a bit of a Marks and Spencers with their C-Class. Not only did they cut costs by using cheaper materials (they claim because most of it is recycled - bull) but then go and have them manufactured in South Africa. I am very surprised that move hasn't hurt them more.

Manufacturers will continue to move east until labour costs rise to eliminate the benefits. If governments continue to fight against it (like they have with the expansion of the EU) it will just lengthen this process. Just look at how quickly countries such as Portugal and Ireland have strengthened their economies since joining the EU. The quicker other countries are allowed to do the same, the shorter the period of benefit for manufacturers, therefore the less likely that they go ahead with relocating. Nice in theory.
 
A politico-economic discussion at last.....

JD - welcome to the world of global capitalism - where the consumer is king! If you want to identify the real traitors, it is people like us that are not buying cars made by British workers in places like Cowley.

Why should large companies be expected to be any more loyal to their countries than the rest of us? Their only immediate responsibility is to their shareholders. They of course have their reputations to protect - and if they can ensure the quality of their product - that will be done. The consumer demands cheap products produced at an acceptible standard of quality. If this means that companies have to go to overseas to exploit economic advantages, then so be it. (Most of us do little to buy British anyway).

The alternative is a controlled, centrally-planned economy - which usually results in industry producing subsidised crap - take much of the old industry of Eastern Europe as an example.

Karcsi has it right in that just because labour is cheap, does not mean that it is poorly skilled. Look at the way the world's leading IT companies are flocking to countries like India - which has a very large graduate workforce doing non-graduate jobs for a fifth of the wages they would expect in the West.

The fact is that in liberal capitalist countries, the shareholders demand profits - and if companies need to go overseas to do this, then there is no way it can be stopped. Protection just leads to inefficient industry and products that no-one wants - the only way it works is if we have a closed market where the likes of you or I cannot buy better-made overseas products (See the attempts made by the likes of China in the past to achieve this).

With all due respect JD, if you are looking for "traitors", then may be staring in the mirrors of our "German" for a while would do us all some good. I do however agree that Audi and the like should be more responsible in marketing their products as "German" though - but to be honest, if you knew your VAG car was being built in Hungary, would it really have stopped you buying it?
 
Bear in mind that many Porsche Boxster's are built in Finland - and the Boxster is the best selling Porsche. The quality of product will largely depend on the quality system put in place by the company that owns the operation. Provided these are set up correctly, then it should make no difference to the quality of a car if it is built in the UK, US, Hungary or Outer Mongolia.

As we consumers demand cheaper, but better quaility products, the manufacturers have to look to reduce labour costs (one of their biggest costs) buy building cars in countries where labour is cheap, like Hingary...

Tim
 
It’s a bit of a laugh to suggest that in order that Audi can sell the A2 at a “bargain price” that much of it has to be constructed in Hungary. Truth is it’s all about corporate greed and nothing whatsoever to do with offering products to the customer at rock bottom prices.

I do agree that the individual can have an influence on a nations economy, growth and prospects, but if everyone on this forum were united as one it would be a spit in the ocean relative to the influence made by Governments or very large companies.

Regards
John Disdale
 
I don't think it matters where the car was built so long as the design, quality and engineering are still attributable to the parent company. People probably buy a 'German' car because they are comfortable with the fact that it was engineered in Germany, they like the prestige that comes with this but are completely oblivious to the fact that it may be built in Turkey for instance.

Do you really care if the engine came from Wales, the washers came from Poland, the electronics from Portugal, and the whole thing assembled in Hungary? Only if you are the accountants in the company that are trying to maximise your profit.

I think it does more damage to people's pride knowing that their car was made by lower paid workers in Eastern Europe than uber-engineers and rocket scientists in Germany.




Tino
Dolphin Grey 1.4 SE
 
I might add, that there are some of us that would prefer if the car was made in our own country for reasons of national pride, and supporting what remains of our manufacturing economy.


Tino
Dolphin Grey 1.4 SE
 
So I take it that's a no then? ;)

Kit

Soon to be the owner of a Dolphin Grey 1.6 FSI SE with Red Leather, ECC, DIS & Symphony 6 CD
 
Who said anything about a bargain price? Audi are complaining that there is virtually no margin on A2s being sold - which is one of the reasons why the A2 is being phased out.

And corporate greed is all about shareholder greed.....fuelled by large institutional shareholders such as the pension funds. Poor company results mean lower share prices which in turn damage our pensions and our mortgages. The whole capitalist system is built on the greed of individuals and the exploitation of labour - just ask your friendly Marxist Audi dealer! However, unfettered capitalism seeks to destroy inefficiency - which is why companies seek out lower labour costs.

Consumers do have a choice - if we are that bothered about British jobs, we do not have to buy German cars. Have you noticed the number of people in France that drive French cars? That is why they still have a motor industry - even if no-one else wants their cars (and they make fairly good cars now), there will always be a home market. Poor old Rover do not have such a place in the national psyche. All you can do in a free society is try to change attitudes. What would you like the government to do? Ban you from buying a German car so as to protect jobs at Cowley. That would certainly protect British jobs - but undoubtedly the Germans would retaliate and I doubt if we'd be best pleased either.

The shoe is also on the other foot when we have attracted car companies from the Far East to build models here - they are taking advantage of our cheap labour and also the fact that by building here they can get round the EU's external protection tariffs and enter the EU market on a level playing field.

And since when has capitalism been all about offering products at rock bottom prices - companies are generally in existence to make money - not deliver altruistic promises.
 
I can relate very much to previous comments regarding pride. I do appreciate this is a dying international characteristic, but I would be interested to know if German owners of A2’s have a sense of grave disappointment to hear that most of the mechanics on the car were produced in Hungary.

I know in my past days of driving around in nice British cars my pride would have been heavily eroded if I had suddenly established that they had been 90% constructed in say Nigeria. Indeed I would have also argued that if such circumstances had existed the price of the car should have been reduced by 50%.

As it stands it is already established that many VW Golfs imported into Britain are fabricated in South Africa, and that it often is these sources which are making the car more problematic than if they had been sourced/built in Germany. Customers however are never given such facts, but it does make one wonder how the “same” cost can be justified when the end product is not really the same.

Regards
John Disdale
 
Someone has just told me that the Hungarians were responsible for the VW hot air balloon which very recently caught fire in mid air. Apparently though the Hungarian Embassy are blaming VAG because they had not specified that the sign saying “No Smoking In The Basket” should have been written in English.
 
@John:
quote: but I would be interested to know if German owners of A2’s have a sense of grave disappointment to hear that most of the mechanics on the car were produced in Hungary.
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I personally don´t have a problem with that. But then I know some people in the unions who work at Audi Ingolstadt and they were pressured by the management when the production for the A3 started, it was either you accept lower wages and conditions or the whole car would be produced in Hungary.....

Bye, Frido.



----
A2 1.2 TDI 2002 silver, CC, DIS, Apple iPod :)
 
I don’t believe that “blackmail” is the way to get the best out of anyone.

I wonder if all the Audi Directors took a massive pay cut to help lower overheads ?
 
ALL TTs are assembled in Hungary (since 1998, and about 200,000 in total), not just some. Just flick back to page 2 of this thread.
 
quote:Originally posted by kit lewis

So I take it that's a no then? ;)
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Back on topic, and steering clear of the globalisation of labour discussions :D...

I spoke to Audi UK customer services yesterday about collecting my new car from the factory. The definitive answer is "sorry sir, we don't offer that service". For the record my car (an A4 cabriolet, not an A2, sorry) is built entirely in Germany so this has nothing to do with the Hungarian factor.

So, Kit, when does your car arrive? I'd like to see some pics...

viffer.
 
Very soon.... it was to be late December but now I'm told it will be late November. This is now worrying me - has demand dropped like a stone following the A2OC righteous crusade for higher quality.... or did the dealer just **** up? Or have I been singled out for 'special' treatment by the provisional wing of the Audi Dealers Collective?

I shall let you know - unless silenced first....

Take Care

Kit



Soon to be the owner of a Dolphin Grey 1.6 FSI SE with Red Leather, ECC, DIS & Symphony 6 CD
 
quote:Originally posted by kit lewis
This is now worrying me - has demand dropped like a stone following the A2OC righteous crusade for higher quality.... or did the dealer just **** up?
Click to expand...

Possibly neither. It is my understanding that a particular dealer is allocated a certain number of build slots, spread out over time. It's quite possible that someone ahead of you in your dealer's queue cancelled their order, so you've moved up to take their place.

And another good thing - it sounds like your original build date was sometime around that of my A4 cab. Namely week 50 (w/e 13 December). It has crossed my mind that they might be having the factory Christmas party that week, which won't do much for quality and attention to detail ;). So at least you've avoided that worry.

viffer
(with rosy glass half full view of the world due to it being Friday)
 
Viffer - according to my dealer (sounds slightly dodgy that...) the car was 'born' on Monday 11 November when they started the build. It's probably been assembled by now and although not even a week old it may well be on it's way to the UK. For info: how long does it take to put an A2 together from the first weld to the final inspection in the factory?

I too am glad we've missed the madness that is Christmas party week!

Take Care

Kit

Soon to be the owner of a Dolphin Grey 1.6 FSI SE with Red Leather, ECC, DIS & Symphony 6 CD
 
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