Death Pipe remanufacture in Stainless Steel. Hopefully now available.

Watching with interest

My silver 1.6 has minor running issues & relegated for now to the garage. Couple of PB ECU's in the wings from Steve will eliminate injection / flap faff on Betty Blue and hopefully the Silver car. Silver car is also due for belt and has an iffy thermostat (stuck open) from I guess sitting for 7 odd years. Fix the minor misfire issue and then & hit everything else
 
sixerj said:
Watching with interest

My silver 1.6 has minor running issues & relegated for now to the garage. Couple of PB ECU's in the wings from Steve will eliminate injection / flap faff on Betty Blue and hopefully the Silver car. Silver car is also due for belt and has an iffy thermostat (stuck open) from I guess sitting for 7 odd years. Fix the minor misfire issue and then & hit everything else
Click to expand...
Just curious, is your diagnosis of "flap faff and, iffy thermostat" are based on knowledge gained from a scan, etc, or just assumptions? ProBoost is an option to fix specific problems, but you really need to know that you have those specific problems, or something else.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
Just curious, is your diagnosis of "flap faff and, iffy thermostat" are based on knowledge gained from a scan, etc, or just assumptions? ProBoost is an option to fix specific problems, but you really need to know that you have those specific problems, or something else.
Mac.
Click to expand...
Actuator arm is snapped, so flaps definitely in a fixed position, thermostat based on gauge and hand measurement of heater output 🤓. So zero actual empirical data 🤣

Running around locally at very low speed it may take 20mins to show anything on the gauge. Run about a bit quicker and you can it up to temp, cabin heat generally vpoor however. Get it on the motorway when already up to temp and gauge can drop back to nothing. Stat is, I would assume (note assume) stuck open after the car sat for 7 years. Either that or one of the a sensors is faulty and saying open the stat

Least that is my working assumption & car has also subsequently into DH in Hounslow who know their A2s for a full car assessment and guesstimate for everything wrong with it - scary number. Confirming same with actuator etc + a whole host more inc maybe injectors, non seating valves etc / moved coil packs about and misfire is consistent cyls.

Guesstimate lead me to go and buy Salesh’s low mile well sorted car as the immediate run about / I will tackle Silver car slow time and replace the family sh*t box Corsa

I don’t expect ProBoost to fix whatever issue is going on, but hopefully will resolve / eliminate issues in the long term, but only once I get to the car running properly in the 1st place.

I have full copy of VCDS to get some actual data & your comments have been insightful as I have only ever used VCDS for more mundane tasks

Once I get time I will do a full shakedown via VCDS + compression and leak down, scope the etc. Too many projects at the moment so it’s relegated to the garage

Jon
 
If you have yet to find a test subject then I am happy to try it,

I have the facilities to fit it myself and keep an eye on it, and have full VCDS.

My FSI is recently back on the road, with no warnings on the dash, and is a more tired example than some of the other cars on here (making it slightly less painful in the very unlikely event that it results in catastrophic failure)
 
Hi, Any news on pipe mod and test progress?

Carried out some investigation into my silver fsi and it’s poor running yesterday

Progress was I think good, so much so I think the engine itself is fundamentally ok (will start a separate thread on findings and way forward) & think it’s worth me building the parts list and ordering all the other bits for the engine including the thermostat. Ergo, while there……pipe

The car is in a slow time fix mode, so time is on my side. But as the stat and pipe is such a pain I wouldn’t want to do this particular job twice if the stainless pipe is getting closer to being available


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
sixerj said:
Hi, Any news on pipe mod and test progress?

Carried out some investigation into my silver fsi and it’s poor running yesterday

Progress was I think good, so much so I think the engine itself is fundamentally ok (will start a separate thread on findings and way forward) & think it’s worth me building the parts list and ordering all the other bits for the engine including the thermostat. Ergo, while there……pipe

The car is in a slow time fix mode, so time is on my side. But as the stat and pipe is such a pain I wouldn’t want to do this particular job twice if the stainless pipe is getting closer to being available


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
Hi, I’m in the same boat, I’d like go the stainless route if it feasible over the summer?
 
Phil_B said:
So, these are a known problem. As are certain pipes on Rover 800's which I also own.
One of the 800 enthusiasts, Andy Cowen, remanufactures some pipes in stainless and I have approached him with the prospect of doing the death pipe too.
He has agreed. I have also given him the link to this forum.
How many people would be interested?
He will need a sample to work from, and will be able to give a price too on quantities

Also, are there any other pipes people would be interested in?

I will post links and pictures later.
He has worked on Jag, Lotus, and Rover in the past.
Click to expand...
 
20240406_230545.jpg


Ok, so I have had rather a lot on my plate in my life recently, and unfortunately this simple task had a back burner. Apologies everyone. The location lug is now fitted, and it is ready for its proper road test and data analysis.
I know @Indi has volunteered to give it the proper test as soon as he can. And other people are waiting on results. Me included! I will be needing to change my water pump and belt soon. I've spotted a drip....
Anyone else interested in doing the test, reply or PM me with a timescale for fitting and test please.
 
Phil_B said:
View attachment 122046

Ok, so I have had rather a lot on my plate in my life recently, and unfortunately this simple task had a back burner. Apologies everyone. The location lug is now fitted, and it is ready for its proper road test and data analysis.
I know @Indi has volunteered to give it the proper test as soon as he can. And other people are waiting on results. Me included! I will be needing to change my water pump and belt soon. I've spotted a drip....
Anyone else interested in doing the test, reply or PM me with a timescale for fitting and test please.
Click to expand...

Since my previous post the car has developed an engine light, with the following codes:

17560 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air; Bank 1; Range 2
P1152 - 35-00 - System too Lean
16785 - EGR System
P0401 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
17699 - Coolant Temp Sensor at Radiator Outlet (G83)
P1291 - 35-10 - Signal too Large - Intermittent

The EGR and Fuel trim are both I suspect due to an air leak which I am currently attempting to fix, but especially with third code, being related to the coolant system, possibly my car isn't the most sensible candidate at the moment.

I'm still more than happy to do the testing, but if someone else has a car ready to go then that's probably the better option.

I'll keep you updated if there's no other volunteers, as hopefully these issues wont take too long to sort, but I find this stuff usually takes longer than expected...

Cheers
Indi
 
Indi said:
Since my previous post the car has developed an engine light, with the following codes:

17560 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air; Bank 1; Range 2
P1152 - 35-00 - System too Lean
16785 - EGR System
P0401 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
17699 - Coolant Temp Sensor at Radiator Outlet (G83)
P1291 - 35-10 - Signal too Large - Intermittent

The EGR and Fuel trim are both I suspect due to an air leak which I am currently attempting to fix, but especially with third code, being related to the coolant system, possibly my car isn't the most sensible candidate at the moment.

I'm still more than happy to do the testing, but if someone else has a car ready to go then that's probably the better option.

I'll keep you updated if there's no other volunteers, as hopefully these issues wont take too long to sort, but I find this stuff usually takes longer than expected...

Cheers
Indi
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks for the heads up. I have had other offers. I will follow up.
 
Indi said:
Since my previous post the car has developed an engine light, with the following codes:

17560 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air; Bank 1; Range 2
P1152 - 35-00 - System too Lean
16785 - EGR System
P0401 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
17699 - Coolant Temp Sensor at Radiator Outlet (G83)
P1291 - 35-10 - Signal too Large - Intermittent

The EGR and Fuel trim are both I suspect due to an air leak which I am currently attempting to fix, but especially with third code, being related to the coolant system, possibly my car isn't the most sensible candidate at the moment.

I'm still more than happy to do the testing, but if someone else has a car ready to go then that's probably the better option.

I'll keep you updated if there's no other volunteers, as hopefully these issues wont take too long to sort, but I find this stuff usually takes longer than expected...

Cheers
Indi
Click to expand...
If the P1152 fault is down to an inlet leak, then the EGR fault could be a consequence, as the fuelling system, and EGR are very much closed loop.
The P1291 is probably the coolant temperature sensor, G62, in then thermostat housing. It, together with the engine temperature sensor, G83, monitors the coolant temperature drop, (and therefore cooling efficiency) between engine out and engine in. It will open the thermostat, (via the heater resistor), to increase temperature drop, if it believes there is not enough cooling.
If the G62 fails, as yours may have done, the fan will /should run continuously, at low speed, and an assumed temperature of 95C. (I think), is used for engine management systems.
Hope this helps.
Mac.
 
@Phil_B Any new on the Death pipe testing?
It sounds like you’ve probably got another volunteer but if not I think I’ve solved the issues on my FSI now
 
VonB said:
Any updates on testing @Phil_B ?

Cheers,

Stuart
Click to expand...
Hi, sorry for the late reply. I returned the pipe to the guy who made it. He was concerned about the delay in the testing as he had people interested in the pipe too. I will speak to him and ask what the latest is. I need to change my timing belt and water pump, so doing the pipe now would be ideal
 
I never had the time to respond or see the progress. Mind you I am not even sure I have a car yet. But here it is:

The bypass pipe+thermostat housing is a ticking bomb.

1. The housing is too complicated with the hoses+coolant weight surpassing what it can handle over time and heat cycling.
2. The pipe is not the problem, the whole combo is.
3. The two ends of the pipe allow for movement to achieve a seal at the whole temperature range.
4. Manufacturing the pipe in stainless does not solve the problem, it takes it elsewhere. If you are replacing the housing then the pipe itself only costs 10 Euros. Chances are, if the pipe is kaput, so as the housing.

Here is what I would suggest:
1. Manufacture a press-fit sprout for the water pump. Have a look online for what I mean, on older cars, also Audis this was normal. The sprout can be stainless of course.
2. This would replace the pipe with a hose as long as the housing is also re-manufactured, possibly in aluminium. But with, simplified hose dimensions without reducers, etc. There are reductions from one diameter to another, e.g., heater matrix, throttle body, etc. This would eliminate all the funny plastic Y/T junctions. Of course the main feature would be the replacement of the death pipe reception with also a sprout. Also the redesign of the recess for the "o-ring", to accept circular cross section o-rings as opposed to the existing one.
3. The revised housing would keep the existing plastic thermostat element so that it can be replaced if needed.
4. So the only service items would be the hose, the two o-rings and the actual thermostat. If that at all.

This is a nice design exercise for a lathe/mill operator. Not very difficult in my opinion but time-consuming with lots of test-fits.

The stainless pipe on its own does not solve the issue with this. As I see it, for this VAG motor and others, you have to replace the housing and the pipe once every 5 years, if not more.

Evros
 
Evripidis said:
I never had the time to respond or see the progress. Mind you I am not even sure I have a car yet. But here it is:

The bypass pipe+thermostat housing is a ticking bomb.

1. The housing is too complicated with the hoses+coolant weight surpassing what it can handle over time and heat cycling.
2. The pipe is not the problem, the whole combo is.
3. The two ends of the pipe allow for movement to achieve a seal at the whole temperature range.
4. Manufacturing the pipe in stainless does not solve the problem, it takes it elsewhere. If you are replacing the housing then the pipe itself only costs 10 Euros. Chances are, if the pipe is kaput, so as the housing.

Here is what I would suggest:
1. Manufacture a press-fit sprout for the water pump. Have a look online for what I mean, on older cars, also Audis this was normal. The sprout can be stainless of course.
2. This would replace the pipe with a hose as long as the housing is also re-manufactured, possibly in aluminium. But with, simplified hose dimensions without reducers, etc. There are reductions from one diameter to another, e.g., heater matrix, throttle body, etc. This would eliminate all the funny plastic Y/T junctions. Of course the main feature would be the replacement of the death pipe reception with also a sprout. Also the redesign of the recess for the "o-ring", to accept circular cross section o-rings as opposed to the existing one.
3. The revised housing would keep the existing plastic thermostat element so that it can be replaced if needed.
4. So the only service items would be the hose, the two o-rings and the actual thermostat. If that at all.

This is a nice design exercise for a lathe/mill operator. Not very difficult in my opinion but time-consuming with lots of test-fits.

The stainless pipe on its own does not solve the issue with this. As I see it, for this VAG motor and others, you have to replace the housing and the pipe once every 5 years, if not more.

Evros
Click to expand...
A remanufactured thermostat housing would be possible, I'm tempted to CAD one up when I have a little more time, all the key dimensions can be lifted from the original.
The issue is that each one would have to be CNC machined, and its not an easy geometry so would be expensive.
Aluminium would seem like the best material to me, a lighter material than stainless (for what will inevitably be a bit of a lump), same coefficient of expansion as the cylinder head, and also no galvanic corrosion.
Maybe when mine breaks I'll have the incentive to look into it 😂
 
Well, I have a spare engine/housing/etc combo. I really don't think you need to CNC it. No need to the the exact same fitment so long as it fits in that area.

Other than the mating surfaces, the o-ring grooves and the sensor/element recesses the rest can be TIG welded together. For the former you do need a mill. The sprouts can be turned on the lathe or bought.

It is just a bunch of pipes cut and welded together,
 

Thermostat housing​


If you have time @indy tackle the thermostat project its a great brain work out.
Create a new thread and share your journey.
@Evripidis could also start the same project at the same time.
Once you have both individual designed your work without sharing any ideas between you.
Swap your projects with each other and refine them and now collaborate to make the final prototype design plans.
 
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