Does The Dealer Know Best ?

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John Disdale

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The question of whether the dealer knows best is perhaps always open to debate, but here and there I have often found that it is the knowledgeable car owner who knows best.

I found an interesting example of this on the internet, and its interesting because although the comments were applicable to a VW the symptoms were exactly the same as what Stevo and Roy experienced with their A2’s – with the dealers not having a clue to the cause. Their problem (or should I say one of them) was driving along and then having the engine suddenly die.

In Roy’s and Stevo’s instances the matter was not helped in the dealer not taking the matter seriously, and almost insinuating that they were halfwits for imagining the problem. I know that Roy and Stevo both expressed what a potential killer this could be (if say the engine died whilst pulling out onto a busy main road), but their comments fell on deaf ears.

Now however it transpires that from the shores of the USA, across to Britain, car owners in the know have established beyond doubt that it is an electrical relay (No 109) which is the guilty culprit. Apparently although the part number is exactly the same VAG have redesigned it in acknowledgement of worldwide problems (its now in a grey box, with the black box models being no good). Of course it may well be that the A2 does not use this exact part, but that in itself is not the entire point when adequate evidence does exist that an electrical relay is commonly KNOWN to cause the exact problems that Roy and Stevo experienced.

Audi dealers appear to specialise in intimidating their customers, however maybe these simply observations will help Roy and Stevo to acknowledge that they were not idiots after all. Indeed I genuinely believe and allege that Roy and Stevo eventually lost countless thousands of pounds (£££) all because their dealers were pig ignorant – or to busy to pass the nature of the problem back to VAG.

Regards
John Disdale
 
This thread raises very interesting points regarding the use and benefits of the internet. In my day job we are seeing the emergence of the "expert patient"....patients who have rare or chronic illnesses who by use of self help groups and/or the net often develop expertise in their particular condition equivalent to or beyond that of their family doctor, who in the main knows a little about a lot of things rather than a lot about very rare problems. The dissemination of information that occurs on this forum is,I think, fantastically valuable to A2 owners and allows them to be one step ahead of the dealers in many cases. How many individual owners would be confident enough to bring up the matter of an exhaust gas recirculation valve with the service department at their local Audi garage? The service depts would be wise to keep an eye on the forum IMHO. The real question is ....can the service departments cope with the concept of the "expert driver"??
 
Slicer,

Yes indeed, beyond the banter this forum at times is tremendously useful to the A2 owner. It might be one thing to think of helpful information as some form of ammunition to be used on the dealer, but I strongly argue that such courses can be so valuable to the dealer – and my previous example illustrates this. Of course you have touched on the nerve in how a dealer might react in basically being told what to do, and it is true that no profession or business loves the customer that knows best. That is understandable in many ways, but if say the knowledge of an A2 owner can help resolve what otherwise might have been an unresolved problem then I contend everyone is a winner.

It always strikes me as stupid that a garage/dealer is racking their brain to solve a problem when 10 other dealers have already resolved the exact action needed. Look at it this way, if an A2 owner has a problem the very first measure is to visit this forum to ask if anyone else has experienced the problem – and how was it cured. Why then does a professional waste valuable time in playing around with their toolbox without doing the same research ? Presumably they have no resource, but why oh why does Audi (or VW) not have an international database where a 15 minute dealer search might be far more productive than 3 hours playing around with tools - and being stumped at the end of the exercise.

I have genuine sympathy over a dealer feeling intimidated, but my own prime concern is for those individuals who have dug deep into their pockets to buy their dream car only to eventually be intimidated by the dealer or nations importer.

Regards
John Disdale
 
Your point about several dealers trying to fix the same problem independently is very valid - surely Audi should have a help forum for its dealers of known problems and fixes - in the computer world it's very common to have this.

MartinW - Dolphin Grey 1.4SE
 
Could'nt agree more and at £70/hour of our hard won cash they really should be using the resource of the net as effectively as possible..they do sell the technocrat aspect very hard after all.
 
I agree JD-not only would a 'Audi Technical Staff' forum help us Audi drivers, but it would surely make the dealers life easier by being able to see what info was available on a number of 'strange' issues raised by other dealers. It makes for a better 'dealer experience' and must make life easier for the technician.

I'm aware SEAT have actual conferences where a technician from each dealership will attend, and any 'strange' problems with vehicles are raised. My Leon started to have problems with a sticky accelarator which the dealer didn't know what was causing it (it's one of these drive by wire thingies). It was raised at the conference where a couple of other dealers said they had customer cars doing the same-result was a new part was identified.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
Relay 109
I have had a Polo 1.4TDi from new, now 49K 65mpg.
In it's first few months the vehicle failed to start and VW rescue were called 7-8 times. They identified Relay 109 straight away (controls glow plugs and fuel pump)and suspected defect in the plug as it always became loose.

The problem was in fact caused be the engine ECU sending the wrong signals to the Relay causing it to open and close rapidly, it would then vibrate out of its socket. Once started the engine would not stall, but would not restart after switch off.

The ECU was then changed under warranty and no problems since.

This is my first post, however I have been one of the "silent readers" for some time as I am thinking of an A2 next.
 
SB,

Its good to see that you are no longer a silent reader, and your account applicable to your VW Polo clearly illustrates another daft fault that can happen to our “hi-tech” cars.

Being that you are contemplating an A2 I am quite convinced that you will find it far more satisfying than your current Polo 1.4TDI (which of course has the same engine as the A2). Although I only drove a Polo TDI for around 2 weeks, and an A2 TDI for only 3 days, I was very much aware of numerous differences. The Audi is quieter, certainly better built and finished, and has far superior steering and lighting. Agreed the A2’s suspension can be a spine breaker on poor road surfaces, however it does enable the car to be driven harder around tight bends than in the Polo. That said perhaps a direct comparison is slightly unfair when the VW costs less to purchase.

Regards
John Disdale
 
When I had my A2 and had drive shaft noises I was told by the service manager at my garage that he had checked an Audi database that all dealers have access to to check if anyone else had had the problem. Whether or not this was true I don't know. Maybe he actually checked this forum for his information.

Cheers,

Jamie.
 
Jamie,

Perhaps you are right, but I stick to my guns that the Audi Empire operates in total confusion – like a fart in a trance. How well I can recall my past dealer Whitehouse Audi contending that they did not understand or know what the new “aerodynamic” wiper looked like, in spite of the very fact that I had supplied them with a large photograph. The killer joke however was that it was actually mentioned on their own website, however I can but only presume that Brand Manager’s at such dealers are far too busy to get involved with the specification of the cars which they sell.

As we all appreciate information on the internet can have countless worthwhile uses, but its no good if someone does not connect their computer to the electricity supply.

Regards
John Disdale
 
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