Excessive Negative Camber - TDI Sport (90HP)

valveman

valveman

Member
My A2 TDI Sport (90HP) has been wearing down the inside edges of the front tyres since I got it 35K miles ago and I am on my 3rd set of fronts (205/40/ZR17s).
I took it to the garage this morning to get the tracking checked as they have a very accurate 4W computer set up.
They measure it and found excessive negative front camber. The negative camber should be -0 degrees 35 minutes +/- 20 minutes.
They measured -1 degree 26 minutes on one side and -1 degree 13 minutes on the other so this is what is causing the excessive tyre wear.
I have checked and there is no way of adjusting the top mounts so you can't get the camber to meet its recommended settings, unless you fit an aftermarket kit but these are for competition use so it will harden up the ride which is exactly the opposite of what the A2 needs.
Everything is standard spec for a TDI Sport including ride height etc.

Has anyone else come across this or is it just a design issue with the front suspension on the later TDI Sport models?
P.S. I did own a new A2 TDI Sport (75HP) in 2003 and that went to 26k Miles without needing new front tyres and even then the tyre wear was even across the tyre.
 
I have heard that the camber can only be adjusted by loosening the front subframe and shifting it left or right (as necessary)

This is hearsay so please wait until you get confirmation, but the hearsay was from the guy who sets up the laser guided tracking at my local tyre shop.

But the first thing I would do is to check all front suspension parts for play (including wheel bearings etc.), if they are fine then perhaps you need your subframe shifted slightly to correct the camber.

Also, did you check to see if there is any accident damage history (Cat C or D?) just in case the chassis has been twisted at all?

Steve B
 
Hi Steve

I checked all the suspension and there is no wear anywhere except for the top mount bearings which I have just replaced. The car was bought from an Audi dealership and has a full HPI check so it is not a Cat C or D and has never been involved in any accident.
Every other tracking setting was within factory settings except for the camber. Rear axle was within limits too.
I would imagine the subframe is one bit right? If that is the case then moving it would not solve this problem as it would just shift the adjustment from side to side.
If the subframe is in 2 halves then it might be possible to adjust each side towards the middle of the car. Basically the bottom of the strut needs to go in towards the middle of the car on each side to give the correct camber setting.
Looking at it I would say the top mount has to move by 5-10mm towards the outer wing of the car on both sides.
 
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Steve is correct when saying the camber can only be 'equalised' by moving the front subframe side to side.
Not sure if your car is lowered but if so, this would add more negative camber. Regardless, there is no adjustment and the 'side to side' tolerance is within limits so to me there is little point in playing around with the subframe.

Seem to recall someone looking at adjustable top strut mounts but can't remember if they were available for the A2. They were however mega expensive

For reference, this is the table of all suspension settings - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9163&d=1335897703

Cheers Spike

PS. Just looked at an old thread and noted the KW Camber Adjusting top mounts were about £400 - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?24209-Camber-adjustment-how-to&p=189910#post189910
 
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valveman said:
Hi Steve

I would imagine the subframe is one bit right? If that is the case then moving it would not solve this problem as it would just shift the adjustment from side to side.
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The subframe is one piece but remember that the strut is connected at the bottom (and so to the subframe) and the top of the strut is connected to the body. So moving the subframe left or right will definitely affect the camber (from one side to the other as you say).

The way to check if it could be this is to compare the camber on the other side, if that is out by a similar but opposite degree then shifting the subframe will help, but if one side is spot on and the other isn't then shifting it will just shift the error.

If the camber is right on one side and wring on the other, then perhaps one of the track control arms has been replaced with a part of slightly the wrong length? (unusual, but if everything has been checked and no play found then it might be relevant.

Also, just by the fact that the guy doing the tracking could not adjust the tracking (or he would have!!) this helps to prove the hearsay, since it is actually not adjustable.
Another thing that prove that the camber is not adjustable is the fact that there are special top mounts for sale that allow you to alter the camber, (£133 - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAMBER-PL...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ae2d50ec1) but I would not recommend using just one to correct the camber (two wrongs don't make a right).

Sorry Spike, our posts overlapped!!

Steve B
 
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Thanks Guys,

My A2 is not lowered and everything is standard.

The camber is out equally on both sides by roughly the same amount (see initial post). The camber setting needs to be 35 minutes (+/-20 minutes). Left side is 1 degree 26 minutes. Right is 1 degree 13 minutes, so both are significantly out and by similar amounts, therefore no amount of moving or shifting the subframe is going to correct this.

The adjustable top mounts look to be the answer but these are meant for competition use so they will introduce an enormous amount of noise and vibration into the car, and will introduce the crashy ride again due to there being no rubber isolation/decoupling between the strut and the body.
Looks like Audi must have changed something when they built the 2005 90HP model as I did not have this problem on my earlier 75HP A2 TDI Sport. Either that or it is a design issue...
 
I had the same problem with my Lupo 3L. The tracking was correctly set but the cause was too much toe-out. If the wheels aren't parallel in forward motion, you will get wear on the inside (toe-out) or on the outside (toe-in). When a garage sets the tracking statically they cannot check this and have to rely on the factory figures. VAG seem to be overly pessimistic about how much play there is in their steering mechanisms. Eventually solved with Gunson Trakrite. Helps if you have two but staggered, so the car is not on both at the same time.

RAB
 
Hi steve i believe the description is slightly wrong and if i understand it correctly this is for the "passat" style suspension that uses a strut but has a top wishbone. The adjustable top mounts general offer increased camber not less. In the three a2's we have i have found that all the sport ones wear the insides unless you run 16" or smaller wheels. When i last looked at the settings you will find that there are different ones for "quatro" so if you have a sport spec you should set the toe to that value-due to it having "quatro" suspension. Not 4wd alas. cheers mike
 
a2sumo said:
Hi steve i believe the description is slightly wrong and if i understand it correctly this is for the "passat" style suspension that uses a strut but has a top wishbone. The adjustable top mounts general offer increased camber not less. In the three a2's we have i have found that all the sport ones wear the insides unless you run 16" or smaller wheels. When i last looked at the settings you will find that there are different ones for "quatro" so if you have a sport spec you should set the toe to that value-due to it having "quatro" suspension. Not 4wd alas. cheers mike
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Hi Mike,

thanks for that, when it mentioned the Lupo I was assuming it might do (we all know the danger of assuming !!! ;) ).

Cheers
Steve B
 
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