Gearbox's compatible with the ATL engine

[Alan_B]

Is there anyone who can tell me what all gearbox's are compatible with the ATL engine that are a relatively straightforward fit.

The GRJ that is currently in it makes a strange noise that gradually goes away when you put your foot on the clutch. It also crunches going from third into second so think the synchro is gone on it also.

 

[George Hogg]

There’s some good threads on here on suitable boxes. I use either 6 speed MYP or PTW on a 90. They transform the car.
Robin Cox has a great write up on alternatives

G

 

[Jellybean]

I have an MYP on my 75Tdi. The ratios of 1-5 are the same as std, so 6th is like an overdrive. However I would suggest a remap to get the benefit of 6th. The throw is shorter and it not as clunky as the original.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

[dj_efk]

Is there anyone who can tell me what all gearbox's are compatible with the ATL engine that are a relatively straightforward fit.

The GRJ that is currently in it makes a strange noise that gradually goes away when you put your foot on the clutch. It also crunches going from third into second so think the synchro is gone on it also.

Alan both the BHC (75) and ATL (90) TDi engined versions of our cars have identical gearboxes save for the ratios inside. Both the 75 and the 90 are also fairly low-geared - the 90 has slightly longer ratios but not much - this is why many replace the gearbox for one from another VAG diesel car with longer ratios still.

Unless you only use the car for local pottering (which for a diesel isn’t the conducive to getting diesel fuel economy benefits and hence a petrol would suit your needs better), I would urge you to consider these upgrades, which are detailed to the Nth degree on here (accessible using Google). Your options here - in addition to replacing your current gearbox like-for-like - are:

1) 5 speed upgrades (cheaper): Choice of MZN & similar (moderate increase in ratios) or JDD (large increase)

2) 6 speed upgrades (pricier but a better all-round solution): MYP / NTG / PTU (TDI 75 ratios for gears 1-5 with an additional “overdrive” ratio for 6th) or PTW (noticeably longer gears 1-4, slightly longer 5th and very slightly longer 6th gears compared with the MYP et al).

Both categories of swap are similar levels of work - for the 5 speeds you’ll need spacers to take account of the extra clearance the ATL’s dual mass flywheel requires that I believe Paul @depronman can supply; for the 6 speeds you will need a matching starter motor - search for “CAYC starter motor” on eBay if it doesn’t come with one.

I have a PTW on my remapped ATL; I love the way the low-down grunt works with the long ratios to create a lazy driving style and allows me to keep the revs between 1600-2000rpm all the way up to the legal limit - at which point the car is quiet and returning 65mpg in the warmer months. Urban environments are also a pleasure with 1600rpm equating to 30mph in third - which is just perfect.

Having briefly owned a TDi90 with a MYP, I found 30mph to be somewhat busy at 2000rpm, but changing to fourth meant the revs at 1400 rpm were then too low (and would affect the working life of the dual-mass flywheel). The MYP & family is still a good upgrade over a GRJ but the PTW is worth holding out for in your case, in my opinion.

Note that any upgrade really should be accompanied with a remap if yours hasn’t been done already.

Please feel free to ask further questions once you’ve read through the threads I’m referencing.

 

[Alan_B]

Thanks for all the advice I have read through a few threads regarding this and think fitting a 6 speed box would be the best so and it will most likely be the myp box as there are a couple of local breaker seam to have them.

I just want to ask does the spacer that is there for the GRJ box have to stay on and does the box have to have any grinding done to it to make it fit.

 

[Robin_Cox]

Thanks for all the advice I have read through a few threads regarding this and think fitting a 6 speed box would be the best so and it will most likely be the myp box as there are a couple of local breaker seam to have them.

I just want to ask does the spacer that is there for the GRJ box have to stay on and does the box have to have any grinding done to it to make it fit.

to the best of my knowledge, this is equivalent to when I had an NTG (MYP near-clone) fitted by WOM. The 6-speed boxes originating from 1.6tdi vehicles already have a slightly extended bell housing to take into account the dual mass flywheel. Thus unlike the box in the Tdi90, they have no need for a spacer as this is a work-around that needed to be introduced on the 90 to account for a DMF that wasn't otherwise used on the lesser-powered 1.4tdi engines. So your 90's spacer is superfluous (but keep hold of it or keep it within A2oc as they are not available elsewhere for any other uses).

On my PTW car the box was fitted directly, and it works. On my NTG car, done properly by WOM, the box was sent away to someone they work with who has a custom jig to machine the bell housing end down by the required amount to fit, and overall it is a better (if slightly more expensive albeit done when other more significant engine work was being undertaken) solution.

 

[dj_efk]

My bellhousing is unmodified as well. So I would say that is unnecessary Robin for a TDI90 unless I’m missing something? Maybe the modification is only needed for the 75 with its single mass flywheel - can you clarify which box is fitted to what model of TDi in your case? Thanks for the excellent clarification otherwise.

@alanb - the only thing to watch is the starter motor as above, your chosen 6 speed box should otherwise bolt straight on and work.

 

[Robin_Cox]

My bellhousing is unmodified as well. So I would say that is unnecessary Robin for a TDI90 unless I’m missing something? Maybe the modification is only needed for the 75 with its single mass flywheel - can you clarify which box is fitted to what model of TDi in your case? Thanks for the excellent clarification otherwise.

@alanb - the only thing to watch is the starter motor as above, your chosen 6 speed box should otherwise bolt straight on and work.

both 75s, both CAYC starter, single mass original flywheel / clutch, one PTW (unmachined), one NTG (machined). Both fine.

Imagine a 6-speed should go straight onto a 90 without the original spacer present assuming the DMF is being kept.

 

[2work]

Morning all.

I also had a MYP gearbox fitted to the Project OEM A2 (2002 TDI 75 AMF) by Rob and Marcus at WOM Automotive. The bell housing was sent away for the same milling treatment as mentioned above and I still have the original/standard A2 starter motor fitted.

Such a great upgrade and bargain ‘boxes do present themselves from time to time. Keep a look out as I’ve seen 2 sell in recent mi the for £250, which is all I paid for mine. Still going strong some 100k miles later.

Kind regards,


Tom

 

[PlasticMac]

Morning all.

I also had a MYP gearbox fitted to the Project OEM A2 (2002 TDI 75 AMF) by Rob and Marcus at WOM Automotive. The bell housing was sent away for the same milling treatment as mentioned above and I still have the original/standard A2 starter motor fitted.

Such a great upgrade and bargain ‘boxes do present themselves from time to time. Keep a look out as I’ve seen 2 sell in recent mi the for £250, which is all I paid for mine. Still going strong some 100k miles later.

Kind regards,


Tom

Just out of interest, is the machining of the bell housing to obviate the need for the spacer, or for a different reason?
Mac.

 

[2work]

Just out of interest, is the machining of the bell housing to obviate the need for the spacer, or for a different reason?
Mac.

Morning Mac,

I would say that Rob @chumsofmanutd would be best placed to correctly answer that question as they made the jig and my explanation/understanding could well be could well be incorrect. .

From memory though, the reduction of material is due to the DMF gearboxes having a larger bell housing to accommodate the DMF, on an SMF application the material is removed as it’s not required and to allow the original/standard starter motor to be used.

Hopefully Rob jumps in to provide a definitive answer as this is just what I recall when Rob/Marcus explained it to me a few years ago.

Kind regards,

Tom

 

[TFG]

I'm following this with interest as I have a now-rebuilt MYP with the bellhousing half of the casing taken from my original EWQ 'box and put on in place of the MYP part to give me the all-important speedo drive output. I've also replaced the diff bearings and all seals. At the moment I don't think I have a problem (?) as I'm going to mate it back to the AMF, but I'm working on rebuilding an ATL and that will ultimately replace the AMF. At that point, will I need the spacer, to accommodate the DMF and its clutch?

Two minor points of interest that others may find useful if doing the same thing as I've done, if theirs is a TDi with the early ABS setup:

1. the MYP 'box I bought (which was from a 2014 Passat Greenline 16.TDi) did not have the helical drive gear fitted for the speedo drive fitted next to the diff, but it can be transferred from the EWQ without modification.

2. If you retain the EWQ bellhousing casing, there's no need to change the starter motor as the EWQ casing (with the smaller hole for the starter motor bezel) is retained. Use the starter that was originally fitted to the EWQ.

If anyone has use for the remains of my EWQ 'box, drop me a PM. It had only done about 112k miles and all the gears, bearings, synchro rings and change tower are still in good condition. Postage will be a bit steep because of the weight, but I'm not after any money for it, other than covering postage!

 

[2work]

I'm following this with interest as I have a now-rebuilt MYP with the bellhousing half of the casing taken from my original EWQ 'box and put on in place of the MYP part to give me the all-important speedo drive output. I've also replaced the diff bearings and all seals. At the moment I don't think I have a problem (?) as I'm going to mate it back to the AMF, but I'm working on rebuilding an ATL and that will ultimately replace the AMF. At that point, will I need the spacer, to accommodate the DMF and its clutch?

Two minor points of interest that others may find useful if doing the same thing as I've done, if theirs is a TDi with the early ABS setup:

1. the MYP 'box I bought (which was from a 2014 Passat Greenline 16.TDi) did not have the helical drive gear fitted for the speedo drive fitted next to the diff, but it can be transferred from the EWQ without modification.

2. If you retain the EWQ bellhousing casing, there's no need to change the starter motor as the EWQ casing (with the smaller hole for the starter motor bezel) is retained. Use the starter that was originally fitted to the EWQ.

If anyone has use for the remains of my EWQ 'box, drop me a PM. It had only done about 112k miles and all the gears, bearings, synchro rings and change tower are still in good condition. Postage will be a bit steep because of the weight, but I'm not after any money for it, other than covering postage!

Brilliant work,

This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping someone would do as I also wanted the MYP in my early generation A2. Same as you, my A2 requires the gearbox output for the speed.

I did chat to Vince at Stealth Racing and he suggested it was a very expensive conversion. In the end I went for a JDD ‘box which works perfectly on both the earlier and later A2s. The Speedo drive had a blanking cap, once removed you can drop the original Speedo drive into.

If ever the JDD ‘box fails then this will be my next approach. When time permits, please do provide some kind of write up as this will be amazing information to the community.

Kind regards,

Tom

 

[TFG]

Pleased to be of some assistance. Be warned that splitting the MYP 'box is an utter pig. My EWQ came apart like a dream - one puller, nothing jammed, very little wear. But it's come from a two-owner (I'm the second one) car that's been very well looked after for its entire life. The MYP on the other hand, has an unknown history and just would not come apart. I could not shift the 6th gear pinion, no matter what I tried. Broke two pullers in the process

I gave up in the end and took it to a gearbox rebuild specialist, who took on the job of creating my 'mongrel' 'box without any hesitation. They were excellent, though not cheap. The whole MYP conversion has cost me a fortune and it's still not completed. The guy that did the rebuild of the 'box said that he's had the 5th gear shatter on some occasions on 02S 'boxes, because they're on so tight. Utterly pointless, in his view. Telling comments.

Because the casing is made up of two halves of different origins, both the diff and the input shafts have to be set up anew for preload, with the attendant investment in their shims to do so. The shims can only be bought as full sets, so there's a lot of expense involved in those parts alone. The little brass (?) cones on the output shafts were fractured on my MYP, so they had to be replaced. Skodaparts.com is a good place to go for almost all of it. The diff bearings they supplied were SKF and good quality. Don't bother spending a king's ransom on the official VAG bearings.

I have a lot of spare shims for this 'box now! If you know what thickness you need (there are very good tutorials on YouTube, especailly be an Amercan guy whose name I can't remember, but I can find the link) PM me and I can probably provide the ones you need for not much money. There are a lot of shims in the kits.

The MYP is replacing a JDD that I put in my car some time ago. I just don't get on with it, I'm afraid. But if anyone want's a JDD that's ready to drop into their A2, message me. I can list it in the Marketplace.

 

[dj_efk]

Out of interest @TFG, what did you not like about the JDD? I assume the gaps between the ratios? Do you live in a hilly part of Wiltshire or else what’s the main use cases of the car it didn’t agree with in your view?

I ask as there are many proponents of the JDD (Paul @depronman is one) and it might be interesting to hear your experiences.

 

[2work]

Out of interest @TFG, what did you not like about the JDD? I assume the gaps between the ratios? Do you live in a hilly part of Wiltshire or else what’s the main use cases of the car it didn’t agree with in your view?

I ask as there are many proponents of the JDD (Paul @depronman is one) and it might be interesting to hear your experiences.

Hi David,

I of course have the JDD gearbox in the Jaipur Red A2. It works perfectly once you’ve got used to how it performs, which only took a day or two nipping about my usual routes. It has also been just as good whilst running with the standard Audi map but it is does respond better with a remapped ECU.

I fully appreciate that the MYP has no real gaps as have one in the other A2 here but for a budget solution; the JDD is really rather good. Not sure why it gets bad press. I don’t live in an area with major contour changes but do travel around and I don’t have any regrets at all. That said, if it ever did fail I’d possibly look at having an MYP fitted to the earlier generation Jaipur Red A2.

Kind regards,

Tom

 

[Erlingtheyounger]

Hi David,

I of course have the JDD gearbox in the Jaipur Red A2. It works perfectly once you’ve got used to how it performs, which only took a day or two nipping about my usual routes. It has also been just as good whilst running with the standard Audi map but it is does respond better with a remapped ECU.

I fully appreciate that the MYP has no real gaps as have one in the other A2 here but for a budget solution; the JDD is really rather good. Not sure why it gets bad press. I don’t live in an area with major contour changes but do travel around and I don’t have any regrets at all. That said, if it ever did fail I’d possibly look at having an MYP fitted to the earlier generation Jaipur Red A2.

Kind regards,

Tom

JDD works a treat in the Cotswolds (far from flat!) which I’m currently ascending daily in Tonka whilst the 1.2 is off the road. Personally, i don’t understand the bad press it gets either. Standard gearing in the a2 across the range on TDI’s is shorter than ideal imo, especially if you’re re mapped

 

[TFG]

Paul @depronman is a strong proponent of the JDD and has told me he can’t understand what I don’t like about it. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

My AMF is remapped. Personally, I wouldn’t even think about fitting a JDD without it. There’s a big jump from 2nd to 3rd and it’s very easy to fall off boost if you don’t hold on to 2nd long enough to get the revs up. The AMF turbo doesn’t spool up properly until you get to 1,750-1,800rpm. You can’t “row” it along lazily like I used to with the remapped PD115 that I had in an old car of mine some years ago. That had a VGT turbo and it would pull up tree stumps as soon as you had 1,300rpm showing. It was fantastic. The AMF is a slug at those sorts of crank speeds. That’s why I’m building myself an ATL.

The AMF is probably a more economical engine than the ATL because of its higher compression ratio. So for anyone seeking economy by using a long legged ‘box, an AMF/JDD combo is probably the way to go, especially if you’re on a budget.

The JDD is great on the motorway in top gear. It lopes along and is nowhere near as buzzy as the standard EWQ box at those speeds. It’s getting the car up there with the JDD that I found tiresome. You need to plan your engine revs carefully. An ATL with a JDD might be a different proposition because of its wider torque spread.