Hello - potential purchaser wondering if the A2 is the right car

A

A2_ornot_A2

Member
Hello - thanks for all the information on the site, which I've been reading over the past few days.

I am thinking of replacing my current car, and rather like the idea of an A2 - but I'm not sure if it will fit my needs - I currently drive a Xsara Picasso, which is too large most of the time (we are a family of 3) but only just big enough when we go camping; although we do get everything inside the Picasso bar the bikes, which go on a two-ball mounted rack.

So for most of the time the A2 would be perfect, because most of our driving is within 20 miles of home. However, we do need to do long journeys (6 to 7 hours) every now and again, and, of course, there is the camping equipment issue. I gather from here that the roof load limit is only 40kg - is that for all models? I've bought roof bars and a roof deck for the Picasso this year so that it isn't so squashed inside the car, and the stuff I'd want to put up there is over 40kg (not much - adds up to c.50kg and I guess I might be able to swap some things around to get lighter stuff up there) This leads on to another issue though - the heaviest camping item is the table and chairs (11kg together) but theses would be too long to go on the boot I suspect, as we'd need a five seater for occasional grand-parent transport, and also because the kid likes to sit in the middle of the car so she can see out the windscreen better.

Anyway, these are the issues I'm juggling with - will the A2 be able to cope on the 5 - 10% of journeys where we need to take lots of stuff? I do own a trailer that I've never used - am I right in thinking it's about £300 for fitting a towbar?

The other issue is reliability - I want a petrol, so a 1.6 I think would be best (especially if we do tow) but it has a lot to live up to. I like to buy cars cheap and run them a long time (no point spending money on a depreciating asset after all) - the current Picasso has 170k miles on it and has cost about £300 in repairs over 2 years/25k miles, including a precautionary new cambelt on purchase. There seems to be a lot of 1.6 FSI issues on here, but then I suppose no-one starts a thread to say 'my 1.6FSI is really reliable' do they :)

Thanks again - I've much more to read, and when we go camping this summer I'll try and work out a better way to pack - it will be January when I'll be looking to buy, although given my specific requirements (5 seats, cruise, tow-bar, electric rear windows, ideally leather) I may be looking forever :)
 
Welcome to the forum. The towbar for an A2 is more than 300 pounds I'm afraid. If memory serves you are more than double that.

Load lugging isn't a problem nor are long journeys. I drove 800 miles over the weekend and it was a pleasure.

Buying a 1.6 cheap and expecting long term low maintenance costs is a lottery though. The FSI has a reputation as a peach of an engine. Smooth powerful and quite economical too but it's not got a reputation for solid reliability. 300 pounds over the long term like you're quoting on the Citroën is a long shot.

you can retro fit leather and rear electric windows but the latter is a fair job so you're talking about 1200 for the 2 at guesstimate of current trading prices.

Bench seats factor in about 10% of A2s so to find one with all your kit already fitted is another tough ask.

I'm sorry this doesn't sound particularly positive.
 
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Is there a reason you don't want a diesel.

If you are planning on carrying weight / towing a trailer, the TDI has a LOT of low down torque?

And Significant reliability?

Steve B
 
Hello and welcome. :)

I've sent you a private message that should hopefully open up the market for you a little.

All the best with the hunt. There are always plenty of people on these pages who'll assist.

Cheers,

Tom
 
Offering you my thoughts in an attempt to help you with your question.
You seem to have quite specific wants and needs. Which is fine. Lucky that the A2 can satisfy them all. With a little compromise and sideways thinking.

The A2 does of course have roof bars available, although I haven't seen many around with them fitted. Definitely strong enough to carry bikes or a storage box, a tow bar would allow you to drag your trailer with you. Again I haven't seen many A2's with those fitted so I wouldn't know the availability. I'm sure someone, somewhere, has one that you could acquire.
If you are going for the "pack as much as we can into the car because we are going on holiday" and using a trailer and roof bars I think a 75 diesel would be the better engine option due to its amazing torque and fuel economy. Also if well maintained it is very reliable, much more so than the (at the time) cutting edge petrol FSI.
The seating configuration you require is a tougher nut to crack.
You could get a four seater and if needed one rear seat can be folded down separately to allow your table and chairs and any other stuff to be carried as well as the little one you have, although she would not be able to see "down the middle". A bench 5 seater would not allow you to use that functionality.
If you add ISOFIX to your wish list then the little one can sit up front and be anchored in place and get the best view. With the passenger airbag turned off. While one of the adults sits in the rear seat. Where there is a lower floor so plenty of leg and headroom :cool:.

As for all the toys and extras. These can be retro fitted to your hearts content (for a price). Obviously it is better to try and source a car that has as many of the options you are looking for, just don't overlook otherwise excellent A2's that do not have all your wanted gadgets on them.
I'm sure you will find the perfect A2 for your needs. It will beat your Citroen hands down in all departments seemingly effortlessly, and send it back off to France with it's tail between it's exhaust pipes.
Au revoir Citroen.
Wilkommen Audi A2.
Hope this helps.
Drew.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'll try and answer questions:

Petrol vs Diesel
I was a big fan of diesel for years - I had a very early Alfa 156 diesel (the 5 cylinder 10 valve) which replaced a Ford Ka. My (then) wife told she didn't care what I replaced our Ka with as long as it cost less than £10k and did the same or better mpg. So I went out with a tiny car with a 1.3 petrol engine and came home with a four door saloon with a 2.4 litre turbo engine which had been stickered at £11k but with trade in and haggling I got for £9k. I adored that engine and the fact that I didn't often get less than high 30s mpg from it even on a commute. Since then I've had petrol (SportKa), petrol (Mondeo), diesel (Multipla), petrol (Leon) and diesel again (Citroen) but I've been a big advocate of diesel from an mpg and torque/fun perspective for a long time.

But ... there is talk of taxing diesels more heavily, and I do feel guilty (a bit) about the soot and carcinogens I'm pumping out all over the place, especially in town. And petrols are quieter, and don't (generally) have as many reliability problems as some modern diesels - it seems there are many expensive things to go wrong with them. The death of the Multipla, for example, was hastened by it needing a new dual mass flywheel which was £500 in parts as I recall. I didn't bother (although it had a huge list of 'about to fall off or break' items too, which helped me make my mind up!)

The economy of the 1.6FSI would be comparable to the Citroen I reckon - we get about 36mpg day to day which isn't too bad considering the large amount of town work it does. On a run it's more like 47/48, which is below what it should be but it's got a lot of miles on (and has winter tyres on still, if I'm honest) With petrol being cheaper per litre, this would make the A2 cheaper to run in fuel at least. And of course it would be cheaper to buy a petrol.

Repairs / Reliability
In terms of repairs I have an excellent local independent - the sort of garage who sometimes doesn't bother to charge you if it's a little job and you're a regular, and who is happy to use parts you supply. They only charge £40/hr labour so that partly explains the low cost of keeping the old Citroen going, but also I forgot some things - it's cost more than that - it's had timing belt, some electrical thing that played havoc with the temperature (got an auto electrician out for that), an auxiliary belt wheel- thing that rattled like a marble in a tumble drier, a brake line and an engine mount - and it needs a new exhaust back section but I keep forgetting because my jubilee clip repair is holding so well :) So, yeah, I'm confident he would keep costs of maintaining the A2 down. There is also a VAG specialist nearby who seem very professional - I had a wait in their waiting room while they coded me a new key for the Leon. (On a note about economy - the Leon (Mk1) was also a 1.6 and I was shocked at how much fuel it used when I bought it. Until I noticed that it stank of petrol at the nearside passenger door, traced to a leaking fuel filter. It was a relief to discover it wasn't really costing about 50p per mile in fuel)

I'm fine with the odd bit breaking and needing replacing; it's a lot cheaper to buy an older car outright and pay for the odd repair than it is to pay a few hundred quid every month just to buy the thing (and even then it's no guarantee it won't cost a fortune - the 72k service on the Alfa was over £1,000 at an independent, and that was 10 years ago, when £1,000 was worth more :) ) What I don't want is a car that is always going wrong, or that goes wrong occasionally but in a very expensive way!

Towbars/Camping/Seats
I'd like a five seater because sometimes we go out for the day with either set of grandparents, which makes five people in all. It'd be a shame not to be able to do that, and as they get older I suppose it might happen more often. It would also be a shame if the kid wasn't in the middle because it suits all of us: we can hear her better, and she can see more: she likes to keep an eye on roadsigns and the gauges. She's only five, so I'm sure in a few years she will like to slump in a side seat and ignore us, but while she likes our company, I'd like to enjoy it.

The three removable seats of the Citroen are perfect in this regard. Generally she's in the middle, but it's great to have the flexibility to have passengers and unusually shaped luggage. Of course the Multipla, with three front seats, and thee foldable or removable back seats was perfect for flexibility, but unfortunately basically rubbish for everything else.

So a five seater is a compromise, but in all honesty the only times we've all been together and I've needed to flip seats it's been because of bikes, and if I get a towbar I can just use the towbar bike carrier - there probably isn't much in it in terms of hassle between taking two seats out of the Citroen and three wheels off the bikes and fitting the rear carrier and putting three complete bikes on it. If we're buying 'big things' (i.e. going to Ikea) we generally go without the kid because then she doesn't have to hear us arguing in Ikea (like every other couple - Ikea is hell :) )

The camping stuff takes up all the interior space of the Picasso with two seats removed. The kid has to climb over the tent canvas to get in (frame tent, so proper polycotton, i.e. enormous) , and on the other side she has two stackable plastic boxes that go to the roof, full of cooking equipment and inflatable beds and so on (safety first - they're ratchet strapped down) The rest of the boot is full of clothes and boots and waterproofs and kites and cricket bats and so on. I reckon it will all fit in an A2 if we use the roof effectively - I really don't like using the trailer, albeit I've only towed it about 10 miles. It's not being able to see the thing that bothers me - that and it being impossible to reverse because it's only 5ft, but it is an option.

You can get the towbar for about £300 parts from eBay with electrics, so my estimate was definitely a little low. I'd have to ask the garage how much they'd charge to fit it. The VAG part number is 8Z0092155 btw - but that doesn't include electrics - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?2706-Towbar-fitting/page2 Obviously you have to be careful with the fitting because the car is aluminium, but it seems to me that cars in general with towbars sell for less, so hopefully if I ever see an A2 with one it will be a bargain. (My theory was that the Citroen was so cheap because the high miles and tow bar combination put people off, especially as it felt really sluggish to drive - but thanks to the wonder of forums like this I knew that the sluggishness was probably due to a faulty brake switch confusing the ECU - owners sharing information like you guys do are so helpful)

Equipment
My first car was a didn't even have a heated rear window, so my equipment 'demands' are not absolutes. But the Citroen (which was a cheap car new) has rear electric windows, cruise control and climate control, and it would feel like a step back to lose them. The rear electric windows are the items I use least, but when you come back to the car on a hot day it's nice to give the air-conditioning a helping hand by opening all the windows and letting all the hot air out. This is even easier because the Cit also has a panoramic opening glass roof, but although it makes the car nice and airy I don't think I'd be that bothered about not having 'OpenSky' as I believe they are highly problematic. I've also read on here that they are not officially approved for use with any roof bars, and although I also understand that the Audi ones fit anyway (and the only issue is that if you try and open the roof with the bars in place you'll break something - easily avoided) I don't fancy the insurance implications of using roof bars on a car they are not approved for.

I do really like cruise control but it seems that is a relatively minor after-market fitment, although if I'm honest it would be after the tow-bar on the list of things to do as I'm the only one that uses it ...

I think I need to find a car to go and look at, even if it will be after Christmas until I'll be in a position to buy one.

Thanks again for all your help.
 
HI,

Just on the Diesel / Petrol, I think that you will find that most people on here (including petrol A2 owners to some extent) may well say that the Diesel A2 is certainly more reliable than the Petrol (not criticising the amazing petrol A2s!!).

I have owned several Diesel A2s for more than 14 years and had zero problems (we also have 5 A2s in the family, all diesel and all without ANY problems at all)

I have owned three Petrol A2sand one was bought with problems (due to a slipping cam belt, so that on doesn't count) but the others a 1.4 and a 1.6 FSI did have a few reliability problems.
Again, I have to point out that these were small problems and I LOVE the petro, engine A2s too, I am just trying to say that I don't believe the petrol A2s are more reliable than the diesel A2s.

As for "feeling guilty" about pollution, it has been stated that the diesel A2 over its life is less polluting than a petrol A2 because of the fact that, due to the higher MPG of the diesel it burns a lot less fuel over its life.

The diesel A2 is £30 a year road tax (a fraction of the petrol version), it gets a minimum (in my experience of 45 MPG and that is around town and I am NOT an economical driver). The torque is fantastic (as I said VERY useful if you plan on carrying any heavy loads or trailer)

There is no DMF to worry about (if you buy the 75bhp tdi that is).

I do agree that diesel cars MAY start to be penalised in the future, but to me that would not make me change.

As I say (and I have to repeat this) this is not a negative approach to the petrol, but and attempt to help with the personal experience of the TDi?

Steve B
 
If you ever see an A2 towbar I guarantee it won't be a bargain. I've seen 2 for sale on the used market this last 5 years and the most recent one was 300 quid with some parts missing.

I'd agree with the suggestions to consider diesel. The 75 doesn't have a DMF so unless the turbo or intercooler go which is not common your theory of expensive bills isn't valid.

Space wise I'd argue there is more usable ratio of rear seat passenger and luggage options in the A2 than there is in my company Q5.

Good luck with your search .
 
A2_ornot_A2 said:
Thanks for more food for thought - I hadn't realised only 2004 cars had 3 point belts. Are they easily retro-fitted?

Hi, just for the record and to help your search, I have just sold my previous Tdi 75SE this was on a 53 plate and registered March 03! This in turn had rear bench with 3 inertia belts and not a lap belt, totally original and not added, hope this helps
Jeff
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ULP said:
A '53 plate car would not be registered March 2003 - 53 plate was for registrations 1st September 2003 to 28th feb 2004 (29th on this occasion as 2004 was a leap year).

2004 model year was released August 2003.

retro fit is possible by replacing an earlier bench seat with a later one - the physical seat is different where the top of the belt is mounted but the fittings into the chassis are exactly the same.
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Sorry I stand corrected, my previous Tdi was registered October 03, I was getting mixed up with my new fsi registered March 04!
(Edit) 53 plate car with 3 inertia belts!
 
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I've used my A2 to drive the four of us to the South of France a couple of times - all luggage in the car, works beautifully. I've also thrown three bikes on the roof using the Audi roof bars and blasted 150miles up the M1 no problems. The A2 is a Tardis, and a capable load lugger too.

I've got a bench seat version. I've had 5 in the car on only a very small number of occasions - it's not particularly comfortable for the rear passengers if any of them have hips - the car isn't really wide enough. However, it's an extra bit of flexibility to the A2's credentials for those very rare occasions when it's needed. In these situations, the passengers are so tightly wedged in that I'm not sure the lack of a three-point belt in the middle would make any difference!

As stated above, the 75PS TDi is very reliable and will give you the best MPG figures by far.
 
ULP said:
A '53 plate car would not be registered March 2003 - 53 plate was for registrations 1st September 2003 to 28th feb 2004 (29th on this occasion as 2004 was a leap year).

2004 model year was released August 2003.

retro fit is possible by replacing an earlier bench seat with a later one - the physical seat is different where the top of the belt is mounted but the fittings into the chassis are exactly the same.
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Thanks, but as it's all more expense I guess I'd better look for a car that has 3x3point belts fitted. The kid's car seat requires one to work, so a middle seat without one would be pointless for us.. I think I'd be best finding an 04 car - Lord alone knows how I would get 'let's buy this car that's older and smaller than our current one, and then spend a few hundred quid getting a two bar fitted and modifying it so that it does what our current car already does' past the OH :)
 
A2_ornot_A2 said:
It didn't occur to me that tow-bars might be specific to particular markets! Surely they didn't make two different shells?

I suppose I'd better check!
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I too can't imagine why a tow bar would be specific to LH or RH drive?
but always worth checking with the seller to make sure.
Steve B
 
ULP said:
We used to own a C4 Picasso and take it camping folding he two side seats flat and then having our son sat in the middle as you describe - there is no way on earth all that stuff would fit in an A2 with a rear seat in use mainly as you lack flexibility - you might do it with a roof box but anything long would be a pain, however it sounds like replacing your table and chairs with a smaller set might help!
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Oh we go further than folding the seats down, we leave them at home, which makes for a weird looking car when you unpack :)

But - we've always got everything inside the Picasso so far, we haven't used the roof-tray yet as I only bought it last week. That will take a lot of the bulky items. My hope is that when we go away this summer we will do so with all 5 seats in the Picasso, and with the boot not quite full. That will mean the tent canvas 'sitting' next to the kid, but it could do that in a bench-seat A2, too. Of course I may end up with more weight on the roof of the Picasso than an A2 would take (max. load of 80kg compared to 40kg) but we shall see. I could use the trailer with the A2 (which will mean the bikes on the roof) - I'd rather not, but it's not a deal breaker.

ULP said:
Check any towbar set you are looking at because they often seem to lacks parts and are £mega - used cars with them are rare. We have Audo roof bars and just out of curiously I tried them on our old A2 with open-sky; the foot was on the glass and as such I'd never use them on that car.
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The two-bars on eBay look complete to me - I notice some of them include a PDF of fitting so I'll look through one of those. Not that I have any intention of fitting it myself! I think I'll give open-sky a miss - as you say it's a problem with the roof bars, and from what I've read they're problematic in general. That's a shame as I do like the glass roof in the Citroen though.

ULP said:
engine wise I'd concur with others, don't buy an FSI and expect not to have the occasional ball-breaking bill; it's a great engine until the £300 light comes on (engine warning light), the TDI 75 is incredibly reliable but I do agree with you about the hydrocarbons they push out and I don't feel very clever driving it sometimes; because of the tech, the TDI doesn't suffer any of the issues that modern diesels can suffer from (no DPF, common rail issues, variable vane turbo etc).

if you can get a towbar set (which must include the replacement bracing bar that it's fitted to) then the A2 with bench will suit your needs
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To be honest it hadn't occurred to me that the engine would be a PD one rather than a common-rail one, but given the age of the A2 it should have done. No DPF is good in a way, but I am increasingly persuaded that petrol is the lesser of two evils in many ways, so part of the reason for swapping the Citroen in the first place is to get a petrol car again. If I wanted a reliable diesel that would fit all out stuff in I'd keep the Citroen until it expires I suppose (although part of the reason to change is that the Picasso is the dullest car I've ever owned, and I've had a Mondeo!) It does sound like the 1.6 is a bit of a lottery, but as I said, I can live with the odd bill as long as I don't get so many I might as well just have leased a new car. You have to expect the odd repair on a 10 year old car after all.
 
Just another quick one if that's ok - I've been checking autotrader and some cars are listed as having air-conditioning, whereas others are listed as climate control, but they don't all have dash pictures to tell if there is a difference. Am I right in thinking that if an A2 has air conditioning at all, it is actually climate control (i.e. you can set a temperature you want and the car will adjust the temperature of the air to suit)?

Thanks.
 
That is correct it is either climate or no air con.
Mid the car has circular dials for the heater it is NOT air con or climate. Many sellers advertise them as such so watch out. You want the digital temp controls then you have climate.
Steve B
 
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