Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Got the easy one, it's in good condition too, got some decorating to do but will be back with mirrors and torches later. just three to go.
Operation save little dog (Albert).
- Thread starter Little Dog
- Start date
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
That one bolt was today's only success. Stopped now and going for a garage tidy up, I suspect I'm in for the long haul so I need space and for it to be tidy The inlet bolts are in good condition and do break and come out easily. There is a heat shield over one stopping it coming out. The heat shield is secured by two copper plated crushed lock nuts. One came off the other did this to the only breaker that will fit.
A 12 point spanner rounded the nut. So I'm going to lift the car and see if I can get it from underneath. Also hopefully retrieve the 10mm socket that has disappeared down the back.
A 12 point spanner rounded the nut. So I'm going to lift the car and see if I can get it from underneath. Also hopefully retrieve the 10mm socket that has disappeared down the back.
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CrispyEdd
Member
Ohh man!!!!!! :-(That one bolt was today's only success. Stopped now and going for a garage tidy up, I suspect I'm in for the long haul so I need space and for it to be tidy The inlet bolts are in good condition and do break and come out easily. There is a heat shield over one stopping it coming out. The heat shield is secured by two copper platted crushed lock nuts. One came off the other did this to the only breaker that will fit.
View attachment 91793
A 12 point spanner rounded the nut. So I'm going to lift the car and see if I can get it from underneath. Also hopefully retrieve the 10mm socket that has disappeared down the back.
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Lets get back to the plan and the advice given. Thank you for taking the time to comment, even where I won't necessarily be doing what has been suggested your suggestions have helped me decide the best course of action.
A number of modifications have been suggested, adhesive, studs, oversize screws, spacer block etc. I've had so much trouble with this cover over the years I want it all to be correct. I would consider modifications, I would most likely have bonded two studs in, if I thought I just needed another 6 months from this car. However I think it has much more life left so I'm going to keep it standard and hopefully it will never leak again.
I believe Helicoiling is the way to fix this, as suggested I have looked at alternatives and Wurth Time Serts appear a better solution. However I only need the coils to hold 10 Nm on a M6. I think Helicoiling is more than adequate, and much cheaper https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381809393478.
Running a tap or self tapping bolt down will not fix the thread, less and less of this comes out each time I poke something down there, this is the state of the female threads:
They are just crispy shreds of aluminium.
Helicoils require me to drill out the old threads. I like the idea of going one drill size down in aluminium especially when as suggested using an angle drill. Unfortunately I cant get it in position due to the inlet manifold:
Somebody suggested running a M7 Tap down with the same pitch as M6. That's a mod but it did set me thinking, a M6 Helicoil tap must have the same pitch as M6 so the same must be possible? No, the inlet manifold is in the way again, I cant get over the top of the tap to push it down square:
I don't think this is a new head job, as somebody suggested, but at the moment it appears one nut could turn this into a head off for the sake of some minor issues.
Hopefully I covered all the suggestions. Thank you, your advice and support is appreciated.
A number of modifications have been suggested, adhesive, studs, oversize screws, spacer block etc. I've had so much trouble with this cover over the years I want it all to be correct. I would consider modifications, I would most likely have bonded two studs in, if I thought I just needed another 6 months from this car. However I think it has much more life left so I'm going to keep it standard and hopefully it will never leak again.
I believe Helicoiling is the way to fix this, as suggested I have looked at alternatives and Wurth Time Serts appear a better solution. However I only need the coils to hold 10 Nm on a M6. I think Helicoiling is more than adequate, and much cheaper https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/381809393478.
Running a tap or self tapping bolt down will not fix the thread, less and less of this comes out each time I poke something down there, this is the state of the female threads:
They are just crispy shreds of aluminium.
Helicoils require me to drill out the old threads. I like the idea of going one drill size down in aluminium especially when as suggested using an angle drill. Unfortunately I cant get it in position due to the inlet manifold:
Somebody suggested running a M7 Tap down with the same pitch as M6. That's a mod but it did set me thinking, a M6 Helicoil tap must have the same pitch as M6 so the same must be possible? No, the inlet manifold is in the way again, I cant get over the top of the tap to push it down square:
I don't think this is a new head job, as somebody suggested, but at the moment it appears one nut could turn this into a head off for the sake of some minor issues.
Hopefully I covered all the suggestions. Thank you, your advice and support is appreciated.
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Watchmakers use pretty small tools maybe there is something they have which you could use to get in with a tap, longshot I know, just a thought.
Catnip64
A2OC Donor
Would a shorter tap together with a tap wrench allow access with the inlet manifold in-situ?
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
This car has had the wrong glow plugs fitted that melted. It has rolled off its ramps smashed the garage doors and locked up on its valves but it still runs well. I would really like to see what is going on in that engine but it is my daily. Daily means fix it correctly and get it going again.
Have wondered if I should buy a new daily and make the A2 a project but I’m sticking with it.
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
The only thing I have come up with, and somebody else suggested it, is to turn the tap with a spanner.
That is fine for cleaning threads but cutting them requires firm correctly directed pressure from above. I’m not prepared to risk cutting with a spanner. if I’d done it before perhaps.
Possible solution would to make a steel guide plate which bolts onto the head. Drill and tap the plate to align with the stripped threads.
That should guide the tap with the 'threading' action drawing the tap into the hole using a spanner.
Would be worth testing the process on some scrap material first
Cheers Spike
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Not sure I would go that far @spike but having considered your suggestion I think a few experiments with a tap through flange nuts are in order. That way the tap is held square and I control the pressure and position. For coiling I would have to prepare a nut or piece of steel to take the coil tap.
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Little Dog
A2OC Donor
No can’t turn the wrench. Could possibly take the fixed arm off and use it a bit like a spanner. Once the thread is started it would probably be better than a spanner.
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Little Dog
A2OC Donor
All the watchmaker tools I’ve seen are tiny. Fascinating things but I think in this case, if the job is to be right, I have to incinerate a nut with Oxy without setting fire to the car or take the head off. Which would probably require even more Oxy around the turbo.
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Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Cheery red three times working down the back of the engine from above. Plumbers heat mats everywhere and lots of smoke but there doesn't appear to be any collateral damage. Pleased with that, just two more inlet manifold screws to go and then I'm coiling
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Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Using 7Zap to find gasket part numbers and opened the wrong parts group. It does show the heat shield that has caused me so much trouble. item 8. The nut shown, item 11 came out easily but there are two and the second is further behind the engine and close to some pipes which make it impossible to get 3/8 tools on it. Probably a good job as, without heat, I would probably have sheared the stud off.
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
This picture was taken for a different reason but shows the state of the female thread:
Also I appear to have found yet another oil leak. The top of the casting was dry and covered in mouse chewed engine noise insulation so I'm not sure where else that oil could have come from other past the manifold gasket? There is evidence of an EGR valve diaphragm leak but that was fixed and cleaned up years ago.
Also discovered an oil leak at the turbo inlet, not sure how that happens as the turbo draws air. I'll get a new O ring fitted while the car is up on stands.
Edit, for the benefit of anybody else removing the inlet manifold with the engine in position, these are the tools that did the job. I couldn't access the manifold screws form under the car. With one arm round each end of the engine, it all had to be done by feel.
Also I appear to have found yet another oil leak. The top of the casting was dry and covered in mouse chewed engine noise insulation so I'm not sure where else that oil could have come from other past the manifold gasket? There is evidence of an EGR valve diaphragm leak but that was fixed and cleaned up years ago.
Also discovered an oil leak at the turbo inlet, not sure how that happens as the turbo draws air. I'll get a new O ring fitted while the car is up on stands.
Edit, for the benefit of anybody else removing the inlet manifold with the engine in position, these are the tools that did the job. I couldn't access the manifold screws form under the car. With one arm round each end of the engine, it all had to be done by feel.
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Little Dog
A2OC Donor
@Howey they were surprisingly clean, black and slimy but not gunked up. A quick scrub out with a bottle brush and brake cleaner should sort them out.
Probably going to be quiet for a while, waiting for parts and tools. I decided to buy a new coil kit as my existing one looked a bit rough and has been used on steel and cast iron. I need 2.5D inserts that don't come with the kits. Also got tapping fluid on its way, don't want to mess this job up.
Probably going to be quiet for a while, waiting for parts and tools. I decided to buy a new coil kit as my existing one looked a bit rough and has been used on steel and cast iron. I need 2.5D inserts that don't come with the kits. Also got tapping fluid on its way, don't want to mess this job up.
CrispyEdd
Member
Keeping us in suspense!