Pepperpot Tyre Size

Just to say if you reference the original Audi A2 sales/spec brochure you will see that Audi themselves actually fit 175/60 tyres to the optional 15" 6 spoke SE wheels as standard for the A2 which are 6J!

The 175/60R15 tyre size was usually fitted to a 5.5J rim on the Audi A2, at least in the UK.

The 6Jx15 ET37 rim is rarely seen in the UK.

5.5Jx15 ET34 8Z0601027
28Z0 601 027steel rim5,5JX15H2 ET34
5/100
4PR-C3V
8Z0601027 03Crally black2004.00 - 2008.05

5.5Jx15 ET34 8Z0601025A
18Z0 601 025 Aaluminium rim5,5JX15H2 ET34
5/100
4PR-C3M
8Z0601025A Z33burnished aluminium2004.00 - 2008.05

6Jx15 ET37 8Z0601025C
38Z0 601 025 Caluminium rim6JX15H2 ET37
5/100
4PR-C3Q
8Z0601025C Z17avus silver2004.00 - 2008.05
 
The 175/60R15 tyre size was usually fitted to a 5.5J rim on the Audi A2, at least in the UK.

The 6Jx15 ET37 rim is rarely seen in the UK.

5.5Jx15 ET34 8Z0601027
28Z0 601 027steel rim5,5JX15H2 ET34
5/100
4PR-C3V
8Z0601027 03Crally black2004.00 - 2008.05


5.5Jx15 ET34 8Z0601025A
18Z0 601 025 Aaluminium rim5,5JX15H2 ET34
5/100
4PR-C3M
8Z0601025A Z33burnished aluminium2004.00 - 2008.05

6Jx15 ET37 8Z0601025C
38Z0 601 025 Caluminium rim6JX15H2 ET37
5/100
4PR-C3Q
8Z0601025C Z17avus silver2004.00 - 2008.05
Yes indeed it was and the 6J rims that you have quoted at the bottom!
 

MINI Cooper 2005​

175/65R155.5Jx15
175/60R165.5Jx16

As you can see from the chart above, even the 2005 Mini Cooper used 5.5J rims for both the 175/65 and 175/60 tyre sizes.

This first generation BMW Mini was all about handling, so if they found that a 5.5J rim was the best rim width for the 175/65 and 175/60 tyre sizes you might too.
 
If you need to swerve suddenly, you need traction on the rear tyres.

That is why I said always put your best ones on the back - it doesn’t matter what vehicle you’re talking about.

Your choice and life of course.
 
This is getting ridiculous now!

If you need to swerve suddenly don't you need grip on the wheels that are connected to your steering wheel to be able to steer and manoeuvre to avoid trouble?

And now we're referencing Mini's wheel sizes not Audi A2's.....am I on the wrong forum? 😫

Everyone do as they please and whatever they think is right and I'll just do the same.

I'm going to bow out now Gentlemen and leave you to it!

Have a good evening 👍
 
If you need to swerve suddenly, you need traction on the rear tyres.

That is why I said always put your best ones on the back - it doesn’t matter what vehicle you’re talking about.

Your choice and life of course.
I have also read this and witnessed it when as a lad I put the ruined front wheels on the back and good rear wheels on the front. I then promptly lost the back end when trying a bit hard round a corner and the car 360 on me for first time ever. I was lucky but never again bad tyres on back of front wheel drive car, the front has mechanical grip to help it, rear not is the way I read it.
 
This is getting ridiculous now!

If you need to swerve suddenly don't you need grip on the wheels that are connected to your steering wheel to be able to steer and manoeuvre to avoid trouble?

And now we're referencing Mini's wheel sizes not Audi A2's.....am I on the wrong forum? 😫

Everyone do as they please and whatever they think is right and I'll just do the same.

I'm going to bow out now Gentlemen and leave you to it!

Have a good evening 👍

You swerve to avoid something - if the front doesn't seem to be biting and turning in, you're still getting closer to the thing you are trying to avoid, the first thing you're likely to do is brake, hard. Suddenly you get all the front grip you like :) but if the rears aren't up to it then the back comes out :eek:
Best tyres on the back, the fronts will take care of themselves - at least to an extent. I wouldn't run nearly-dead front tyres, I'd side with the tyre people who say change them at 3mm.
 
Again we have gone to extremes and are now referencing putting worn out or ruined tyres on the rear. Nobody said anything about using worn out tyres anywhere on a car and obviously all four tyres should be good.

The op didn't ask about fitting the two tyres that were nearly on the limit anywhere on the car as he said he would replace them?

He did say he would probably put the new tyres he was looking to buy on the front and on an A2 I would agree with him and would do the same.

I personally wouldn't use budget tyres, though many do. In my opinion they shouldn't even be allowed to be used on the road as a lot of them are plain dangerous.

Any tyre will be 'ok'ish in the dry but in the wet is when they are put to the test and at risk.

If you have to swerve suddenly and are braking hard (which won't give you more grip btw it just puts more weight onto them in fact making things worse) poor front tyres will not grip or steer but carry on sliding into whatever you are trying to avoid. The best rear tyres in the world will not help that. If the rear steps out you can correct it, if the front goes that's not so easy?

Obviously common sense says bald or damaged tyres shouldn't be used anywhere on a car.

Ideally you would fit top quality matching tyres all round although obviously cost doesn't always allow this, and the same size tyres all round.

Oh and yes the 185/65 15 will work OK on an A2 with SE suspension but they are a bit on the tall side 😂
185/60 15 are fine and are mass produced so pretty cheap too.
Check out camskill.co.uk for good price where you can also easily compare the individual tyre ratings.
I personally look at wet grip first (you want 'A' if possible) then I look at road noise, obviously the lower db the better 👍
 
195/55R15 and 195/60R15 are also worth considering for fitting to the 6Jx15 ET38 pepperpots. These would probably appeal to those that like the look of a bigger tyre.

195/60R15 is a cheaper and more comfortable tyre size than 195/55R15, but 195/55R15 keeps the gearing standard.

As you can see from the chart below, 6J is the standard rim width for both the 195/60R15 and 195/55R15 tyre sizes and hence 6.0 is highlighted in bold. 5.5-7.0 is the allowable range of rim widths that both these two tyre sizes can be fitted to.

ETRTO approved rim widths
60 Series

195/60 5.5-6.0-7.0
55 Series
195/55 5.5-6.0-7.0

Vredestein Quatrac 195/55R15 85H

Vredestein Quatrac 195/60R15 88H
 
Last edited:
195/60R15 is a 4% larger circumference, so speedo will under-read. 195/55 will be ok, but I fail to see the advantage over a 185/60.

Opinion: 185/60R15 is a very good compromise between comfort and lack of roll. I have these as winters, I'm now on the second set. I disagree with 185/65R15, they are too big.

Quick Price check: Conti premium contact 6. 195/55R15 = €116. 185/60R15 = 101. 185/55R15 = 99.

opinion: Replace all four, go 185/60R15, shop around. Should be able to get Hankooks below €80 / corner and efficient grips at €100; Primacys seem to be at €111. The BluEarths on the A2 are quite quiet but only c/c.

Regarding the back slipping out: I say no, it won't. Car and ESP both say "no". Offspring recently took the A2 to the summer house (I was quarantined) and it appears she decided to take a (shallow) left turn at about 70-80km/h "oh no, i need to go to the store in that little town and that was my turn <pulls steering wheel>". Tyres squeal and car slides, no ESP. It went around the corner, she was a little shocked but no harm, no foul. Glad she didn't try it in the wife's car...
The back end does not kick out and believe me, I have tried very, very hard to get it to. I've turned off ESP, I have the rear ARB and it just won't go, I have tried with space, ice, snow and gravel. Gravel is the only one where I've got even close, and even then there's just the start of a slide, not the rear trying to overtake.
The (4x4) Superb and (4x4) S-Cross will both powerslide nicely with ESP off, destabilization a.k.a a scandinavian flick, and some power, but the A2 resolutely refuses to do it. Phoenix / Andre did some testing with dishes under the rear wheels of his A2 at the last ice track and he was disappointed. Even with spikes on the front and friction tyres on the back, Thomas still couldn't get the rear to kick out, also with ESP off. I didn't try this on wet ice, I can put this on the list of things to do at IT23.

Straight line stability on crappy (read: gravel) or wet surfaces is more the problem, especially when braking. I might see if I can get Offspring to take the car to the summer house again and then drop an action cam onto the spoiler when we brake from 80km/h on gravel, just so you can see the tail wag. You could absolutely feel it in the 307, it's incredibly unnerving. You already have a significant proportion of the weight at the front and braking forces that even more.

This is also why you really should go and attend some road safety days, in your own car, so you have a clue what to do *before* it's brown trousers time. When the cruise clicked off in the Superb while overtaking a truck on a snowy hill, I knew what was going on and why; when trying to slide the s-cross, I'm aware of how much the right foot controls the slide versus the tyres and just how much opposite lock is needed (just a dab, honestly)... and just how fast I end up going because I've applied power through the slide. Practice helps enormously to understand.
 
195/60R15 is a 4% larger circumference, so speedo will under-read. 195/55 will be ok, but I fail to see the advantage over a 185/60.

Opinion: 185/60R15 is a very good compromise between comfort and lack of roll. I have these as winters, I'm now on the second set. I disagree with 185/65R15, they are too big.

Quick Price check: Conti premium contact 6. 195/55R15 = €116. 185/60R15 = 101. 185/55R15 = 99.

opinion: Replace all four, go 185/60R15, shop around. Should be able to get Hankooks below €80 / corner and efficient grips at €100; Primacys seem to be at €111. The BluEarths on the A2 are quite quiet but only c/c.

Regarding the back slipping out: I say no, it won't. Car and ESP both say "no". Offspring recently took the A2 to the summer house (I was quarantined) and it appears she decided to take a (shallow) left turn at about 70-80km/h "oh no, i need to go to the store in that little town and that was my turn <pulls steering wheel>". Tyres squeal and car slides, no ESP. It went around the corner, she was a little shocked but no harm, no foul. Glad she didn't try it in the wife's car...
The back end does not kick out and believe me, I have tried very, very hard to get it to. I've turned off ESP, I have the rear ARB and it just won't go, I have tried with space, ice, snow and gravel. Gravel is the only one where I've got even close, and even then there's just the start of a slide, not the rear trying to overtake.
The (4x4) Superb and (4x4) S-Cross will both powerslide nicely with ESP off, destabilization a.k.a a scandinavian flick, and some power, but the A2 resolutely refuses to do it. Phoenix / Andre did some testing with dishes under the rear wheels of his A2 at the last ice track and he was disappointed. Even with spikes on the front and friction tyres on the back, Thomas still couldn't get the rear to kick out, also with ESP off. I didn't try this on wet ice, I can put this on the list of things to do at IT23.

Straight line stability on crappy (read: gravel) or wet surfaces is more the problem, especially when braking. I might see if I can get Offspring to take the car to the summer house again and then drop an action cam onto the spoiler when we brake from 80km/h on gravel, just so you can see the tail wag. You could absolutely feel it in the 307, it's incredibly unnerving. You already have a significant proportion of the weight at the front and braking forces that even more.

This is also why you really should go and attend some road safety days, in your own car, so you have a clue what to do *before* it's brown trousers time. When the cruise clicked off in the Superb while overtaking a truck on a snowy hill, I knew what was going on and why; when trying to slide the s-cross, I'm aware of how much the right foot controls the slide versus the tyres and just how much opposite lock is needed (just a dab, honestly)... and just how fast I end up going because I've applied power through the slide. Practice helps enormously to understand.
Does that all mean best tyres on the front??? 🤔😂👍
 
Just having a quick look at Camskill.co.uk taking everything into consideration these are the three that I would be considering depending on what I wanted to spend. Be sure to go for H speed rating over T and 84 load rating over 88 👍
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20220701-103358_Google.jpg
    Screenshot_20220701-103358_Google.jpg
    199 KB · Views: 105
  • Screenshot_20220701-103419_Google.jpg
    Screenshot_20220701-103419_Google.jpg
    169 KB · Views: 116
  • Screenshot_20220701-103539_Google.jpg
    Screenshot_20220701-103539_Google.jpg
    171 KB · Views: 106
195/60R15 is a 4% larger circumference, so speedo will under-read.

195/60R15 tyres have been tested by one owner to read 50mph on the speedo, when the actual speed is 49mph as verified by gps/satnav. This is over-reading (which is good), not under-reading.

This isn't surprising, because on standard tyres the A2 over-reads by about 5%. The 195/60R15 tyre size is only about 4% bigger than standard, which is why the speedo still over-reads.

There's a good picture of his car fitted with 195/60R15 tyres on the link below.

Audi A2 owner that has fitted 195/60R15 tyres
 
195/60R15 tyres have been tested by one owner to read 50mph on the speedo, when the actual speed is 49mph as verified by gps/satnav. This is over-reading (which is good), not under-reading.

This isn't surprising, because on standard tyres the A2 over-reads by about 5%. The 195/60R15 tyre size is only about 4% bigger than standard, which is why the speedo still over-reads.

There's a good picture of his car fitted with 195/60R15 tyres on the link below.

Audi A2 owner that has fitted 195/60R15 tyres
I try very hard to have matching tyres on the front and back, matching brand/size and wear/tread. This means a front rear swap at around mid life.
Good tyres front and rear, so the best tyre to front or rear argument does not apply.
Mac.
 
Last edited:
Wow this has generated more discussion than i thought it would! thanks for all the comments.

I agree about not running budget tyres and normally i dont. I am considering just getting 4 new ones. If i did that i would go for all seasons as we get some crap weather in Scotland.

I found a deal at ATS, they are doing £64 off a set of 4 Michelins + £50 cashback, so makes a set of Crossclimate 2 about £280 fitted which seems OK.

175/65R15 are XL rated so probably not the best choice for comfort
185/60R15 are 84H and not XL so would these be the better choice

they also have 185/65R15 which are cheaper but seems that these are probably just a bit too big and over-read on the speedo
 
Wow this has generated more discussion than i thought it would! thanks for all the comments.

I agree about not running budget tyres and normally i dont. I am considering just getting 4 new ones. If i did that i would go for all seasons as we get some crap weather in Scotland.

I found a deal at ATS, they are doing £64 off a set of 4 Michelins + £50 cashback, so makes a set of Crossclimate 2 about £280 fitted which seems OK.

175/65R15 are XL rated so probably not the best choice for comfort
185/60R15 are 84H and not XL so would these be the better choice

they also have 185/65R15 which are cheaper but seems that these are probably just a bit too big and over-read on the speedo
Yes, you won't go wrong with the 185/60 15's, the 84 H is correct too and that does sound a very good deal 👍
 
Yes, you won't go wrong with the 185/60 15's, the 84 H is correct too and that does sound a very good deal 👍
Concur with @A2Z - Go for the Michelin CC2's in 185/60/15 flavour, that's exactly what I'm running and that price is very good. They are slightly stiffer compared to others (I am running them on the Audi-recommended full-load pressures on country roads and comparing to other brands when doing the same). In all other respects they are the best you can buy for year-round performance across all measures they have been tested on. HERE is my source for this claim.
 
Concur with @A2Z - Go for the Michelin CC2's in 185/60/15 flavour, that's exactly what I'm running and that price is very good. They are slightly stiffer compared to others (I am running them on the Audi-recommended full-load pressures on country roads and comparing to other brands when doing the same). In all other respects they are the best you can buy for year-round performance across all measures they have been tested on. HERE is my source for this claim.

In the "2021 Tyre Review All-Season Tyre Test" the Vredestein Quatrac was in a different league in the wet handling test compared to the Michelin CrossClimate 2 and all of the other all-season tyres.

In the South of England, there's mainly cold rain in the winter, not much snow. So for these conditions I would take the far superior wet handling of the Quatrac over the CrossClimate2. For the rare snow events, it's no problem to ease off a bit with the Quatrac compared to the CrossClimate2. Compared to summer tyres, all of these top performing all-season tyres are in a different league when there's snow. You can see that very clearly if you look at the results for the snow tests.

Snow Braking Distance
Michelin CrossClimate2 17.33 metres
Vredestein Quatrac 18.08 metres
Reference Summer tyre 44.65 metres

So the Quatrac takes just over 4% longer to stop in the snow than the CrossClimate2, but the summer tyre takes over 250% longer to stop in the snow than the CrossClimate2. This is why it's important not to get too carried away about one top performing all-season tyre compared to another top performing all-season tyre...as in cold weather the top performing all-season tyres are all in a different league compared to summer tyres and actually quite closely spaced.

Wet Handling Time
Vredestein Quatrac 48.48 seconds
Reference Summer tyre 49.96 seconds
Michelin CrossClimate2 50.65 seconds

So the Quatrac can go around a test track in the rain over 4% quicker than the CrossClimate2.

The "2021 Tyre Review All-Season Tyre Test" was conducted with the 205/55R16 tyre size. If it had been conducted with other tyre sizes then slightly different results may have occurred. Hence these tyre tests should be used as a general guide.

Extract from "2021 Tyre Review All-Season Tyre Test" 205/55R16 tyre size

Wet​

The slowest tyre of wet handling was again the budget Star Performer. Weirdly it felt quite balanced, but balanced with no grip, meaning you were sliding everywhere, constantly, consistently. Fun, but not fast.

The next group was Nokian, Avon and Continental around 5% off, or 2.5 seconds. All three of these tyres had very similar subjective notes, I enjoyed driving on them all, they all had a safe, neutral balance, but they just didn't quite have the grip of the best.

2021-as-wet.png


Pirelli and Michelin come in at fifth and fourth place, another half second quicker than the previous group. These tyres weren't quite as enjoyable to drive on as the previous two, with neither tyre giving great levels of feedback, but the grip was there and so was the time.

Goodyear and Bridgestone in third and second both around 1.5 seconds off the best and both much nicer to drive. The goodyear was extremely compliant and even tyre with good cornering grip and a stable rear, giving you lots of confidence to push hard, but it gave you no surprises even when pushing on. The Bridgestone, well this felt mega under braking, and had great traction, but the cornering couldn't match. If it could, maybe it would have matched the test winning Vredestein.

The Vredestein felt like a different category of tyre it had so much GRIP, and the grip was really ROUNDED. It was the most SPORTY of the bunch, the most FUN of the bunch, the easiest to drive FAST of the bunch, just so much FUN to drive.

The summer tyre was a little closer on time, but less fun. Like in the dry the turn in was a little more positive, but not massively so in this 16" size, and the main difference was when the grip dropped away, it dropped away more quickly than the all seasons and you felt like you were fighting the car for grip. At the test temperature of 3c the tyre felt nervous, like it was sitting on the surface of the road rather than keying in.

 
Last edited:
I must admit I have never actually used all-season tyres myself so cannot really comment on them as when I offer any advice I believe it should be from my first hand actual experience rather than speculation or third party experience from what I've read 😏

I can however understand the reasoning and practicality of using all-season tyres, especially so in areas that are prone to varied and inclement weather throughout the year and the obvious factor of not having to either swap from winter to summer tyres, the cost of initially buying two sets of tyres and then paying a garage to change them over twice a year.

That said personally I prefer to have the best tyres on to suit the conditions year round which for me means having a designated summer set of wheels and tyres permanently made uo and perfectly balanced ready to just bolt on and the same for winter, a designated set of winter tyres on an identical set of wheels again balanced and ready to bolt on as and when required.

Again, I appreciate this also requires the additional cost of purchasing another set of wheels but I find that this is soon recovered by not having the cost of tyre changes between winter and summer tyres on the same set of rims not to mention the inevitable damage that gets caused to the rims by an incompetent or inconsiderate tyre fitter.

I clean them when i take them off ready to go on again next time.

Again there is also the issue of storing the one set that is not being used that some people may not have the ability to do.

I do have to admit though that the last two years I really could have managed without even putting the winters on and can see how the all-season option would have been of use, so I guess it's horses for courses, individual requirements and personal preference.

When you look at the label of the MCC2 I have to say it is pretty impressive, and although it doesn't have an A wet grip rating it does have a B so by no means poor in the wet and also has an excellent C rating for fuel efficiency which is much better than most summer tyres (a lot of which are F) so should be fairly economical as some have claimed too. Combine that with a 69 dB road noise rating and there isn't too much better out there purely as a summer tyre let alone as a proficient winter tyre too.

It has always surprised me how most actual winter tyres don't have a very good wet rating at all which you would think they would have but I must admit I have been a convert to since selling a 4wd vehicle I had that was amazing in the snow and really missed when the next bad winter arrived, after being advised by someone to try winter tyres which I must admit I was sceptical about, having never used them before but they turned the car into a bona-fide 4wd equivalent in the snow as they still continue to do on the A2 👍
 
Back
Top