Security Issue

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runboy

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Just read about this on teletext tonight-it's saying around 500,000 VW's could be affected by a flaw allowing quick access to the cabin via the windows. I presume it's to do with the electric window opening function if you hold your key in the lock.

Here is BBC's Watchdog's report:
www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/reports/reports_wvw.shtml

I wonder if it affects Audi?.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
I saw the “Watchdog” programme, although I have been aware of the problem for a good few days. For sure the situation is not a happy one, and on the basis that VAG use many of the same parts on Audi’s and VW’s I imagine the problem occurs across the range – including Seats.

For safety purposes A2 owners should be asking their dealers if the central locking system (and windows) can be controlled by knocking out the door lock and playing with the wires – or whatever.

For those who missed the show all VW’s can be broken into in 9 seconds without the alarm going off.

Regards
John Disdale
 
May sound a bit hysterical but I've just pulled my car off the drive and parked it at the side of my house (still on the drive but closer to the main house) and have noticed two sets of finger prints on the drivers window. Most certain they aren't mine or my wifes - I'm pretty scared now... A sleepless night ahead.....
 
So how does that work if you have an interior monitoring sensor alarm (like the A2 has)?. Or is it:

A, the cars they are talking about only have a bog standard alarm
B, by playing with the wires it turns off the alarm (unlikely as I thought that only happened when the car was opened with a key?)
C, I take it a lot of VW models have an interior boot release?

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
Glad you didn't have to go for 50/50 or ask the audience JD!. Well done, you've won........an Audi A2.......

Roy-just someone admiring your car(not to nick it)

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
On my part this is as I see the matter. I purchased a car where the brochure advertising the Golf stated “At Volkswagen its not just protection against the elements we are concerned with; car security is also high on our list. That’s why you’ll find a host of innovative features to deter even the most persistent thief” (end quote)

Anyway now via “Watchdog” we find that a halfwit can break into a Golf inside 9 seconds, which I legally argue does not constitute a valid claim of deterring a persistent thief – especially when the alarm fails to activate. I shall be writing to my dealer (with a copy to VW Uk) requesting that my car is brought into line with the specification “as claimed” in their advertisements.
 
OK, you can never stop a brick through the window, but that attracts attention. If this other way works, then a thief can squat down at the side of the car and quietly open it up. As you say JD, not what VW claim. Surely a recall is required?.

I know the VAGCOM machine can turn on and off a number of electronic functions of a car via software-maybe as a stop gap method your garage could turn off the window opening feauture via keyfob and key-in-door, then sort out a permanent fix.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
For anyone interested the Golf forum are having kittens over this one.
http://www.uk-mkivs.net/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&ARCHIVEVIEW=&TOPIC_ID=3915

I've just emptied my glove box (left it open), emptied my armrest and took out my parcel shelf. This way at least they can see there is nothing to nick...

JD.
Have you seen the mod they are talking about on the Golf forum?
How easy is this in your opinion?

I have sent an email to the BBC complaints department. I believe that the security issue needing raising but I've also advised them that as they have decided to make the information on how to break into a VW, public domain, then I hold them responsible for any loss or damage that I incur as a direct result of that information. Legally this stands....

Steve.
Yep a brick through the window will do it but that sets the alarm off. By doing the watchdog way it doesn't sound the alarm...
I do believe that VW will be chocker block in the morning. I for one will be talking to them.
 
It's a similar thing over on the SEAT forum-a few concerned people.

Sorry to do this to you so late at night-bet the neighbours thought "that Roy, always doing something to his car".

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
Some information that might calm the A2, A4 and A6 owners out there !

On the Audi A2, A4 and A6 (as well as on the new VW Polo) you can only
deactivate the alarm with the remote control !!!!!!!!!

If you open the door with the key you have to start the car with the correct key with the correct key code within 15 seconds !!!!!
If not the alarm will go off !

According to our Audi specialist at our dealer this roles out the possibility of deactivating the alarm by tampering with the door lock !

This does not apply to the Audi A3 which has the same type of alarm
system as the Golf, Passat,Leon/Toledo and Octavia !

BK

Soon the owner of a 2003 Silver 1.4 TDI S-Line (Sport in the UK) with Open Sky, ECC, APS, CruiseControl, Navigation Plus + TV + BOSE + CD changer, Sideguard, Mobile phone, El. rear windows, Fog lights, Winter Package, ISOFIX, Headlight washers, Space Floor +++++++
 
Sorry.. I know this is about Golf’s in particular but I feel all VW/Audi owners need to be aware of this situation.

Well…
I took a trip this morning to my dealer (Lakeside VW Stoke on Trent). I spoke with their Quality Manager who told me that he was personally aware of the problem many months ago and he had reported the issue through to VW UK at that time. As it stands there is no fix for this security breach.

I then called VW UK to ask for their input on the situation.

I was told the following:
1. VW have only been aware of this issue for a few weeks, not two years as the Watchdog program claimed. I asked what VW intend to do about the statement from the BBC that they had known and chosen to ignore the fault for two years. He refused to answer.
2. There are no manufacturing faults or defects on the Golf
3. The golf has won for two years running the award for “Best Car Security”
4. If any security issues are found then VW will investigate.

What a load of liars… :( I have to say that the whole car industry is a disgrace. I now have a car that I have to empty every night and remove all the items from my boot including the parcel shelf just to reduce the risk of theft. This is an outright insult to the UK car buyers market.

I insisted that they register my complaint and worries and they have issued me with a case reference number. Not much good if the car is broken into……..

Any ideas from this forum would be welcome.
 
I wonder what security award they won?. I can't remember seeing them appear too high in the What Car? annual security survey list.....

The BBC website has a letter you can send to VW, lets all do that as owners of VAG group cars and see if it changes VW's stance.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
I do believe that “BK” has good insider information, and on this basis it would look as though A2 owners have nothing to worry about.

To Roy,
Yes I do have some understanding of how the VW lock setup can be modified, however apart from needing the services of a paint sprayer the modification could be a major problem if the car battery went flat, because the only way of gaining entry into the car would be a brick through the window. This I personally do not find acceptable – but perhaps my thinking is to old fashioned ?

I might add that remote style keys are not totally without their problems, so should they ever go wrong it could be down to the brick again. Do remember also that the said lock modification can still be got past by those with the will and knowledge to do so. That said I do acknowledge that no car has cast iron security.

Regards
John Disdale
 
official VW Bulletin that they have received this morning. Here it is:

Watchdog

In response to last night's episode of Watchdog, Volkswagen Customer Care Manager Jackie Grao has issued the following information to be relayed to any customer queries:

For general security enquiries, advise that:

Unfortunately, no car is resistant to entry by the criminal. The information provided in your vehicle's handbook does warn about the dangers of leaving valuable objects on display in cars.

If customers are concerned about security of their vehicles, you can advise:

We take vehicle security very seriously. UK vehicle security consultants, regarded by Volkswagen as some of the most experienced in the world, have a direct influence on the design of our security systems.

You can offer reassurance to customers who are concerned about their Golf that:

The current Golf has achieved a 'Best Class' rating in the 'What Car?' Security Test two years running. However, no manufacturer would claim that its vehicles are secure from forced entry by a determined criminal.

If customers want particular information on what Volkswagen are doing about this, you can advise the following:

This is not a fault with the Golf. As soon as Volkswagen and the UK security experts become aware of new methods of forced entry, provision is made to develop measures to resist them. These measures are incorporated into new Volkswagen models as soon as possible.

If customers ask why we do not make them aware of security issues, you can advise the following:

To date is has been our policy not to advise owners when we learn of new criminal methods to defeat vehicles security systems as we feel that this would increase criminal activity rather than reduce it.

Please explain to customers that:

Although manufacturers have suceeded in making vehicles more resistant to being stolen, it must still be assumed that thieves will always have ways of entering vehicles by force.



Sounds like the usually denial to me!!!! :(
 
Oh right, so just because VW give you a key and a lock on your door, that's OK. The fact it can be by-passed is tough on the customer.

So when my bank allows everyone access to my bank account because of their poor security, they can come back to me and say "you have a pin and password, but because a hacker has found a way in we will do nothing about it-we have done everything we can to prevent access and we will do no more". They would last a long time in the marketplace-about a day whilst everyone took their money out!.

It could be worse-I read you could open a Daewoo Matiz quicker than with the key if you hit the right place!.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
VW can come out with all the old toffee that they like, but under the sales of goods act I shall most certainly be putting them to the test over their advertised claims that “Car security is also high on our list. That’s why you’ll find a host of innovative features to deter even the most persistent thief”

Of course if some VW halfwit wishes to argue that a fair legal interpretation of a “persistent thief” is someone that can merrily break into a car in less than 10 seconds, then I shall be busting a gut to making such a statement into a huge joke. I had enough humiliation from Audi, and for certain I am not about to go through the same with VW.

Regards
John Disdale
 
Audi A2 has Thatcham Category 1.
Golf?

icon_smile_cool.gif
 
Maersk,

As you may recall when I telephoned Thatcham about the mouse squeak alarm on the A2, the actual means of testing is a glorified farce when manufactures do no more than set their own specification & standards – and thereafter Thatcham check that the vehicle complies with those standards. It borders on a sick joke.

Regards
John Disdale
 
Royfox

The press release sounds like a load of spin and smoke and mirrors to me...

Chivers ':)'
'02 A2 1.4TDi SE
 
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