The definitive tyre / wheel size thread

I appreciate questions on tyre sizes are painful, but I'm trying to choose between a fat 185/60 15 all season (Vredestein) or a 195/50 summer which I'd potentially swop over at the end of the year - I live on the south coast, but will potentially need to commute through the winter. As far as I can see, effect on speedometer reading will be minimal, and both will give an improved ride over the 16" wheel/tyres currently fitted (185/50) - even the 195/50s will give an extra 5mm of sidewall plus the benefit of reduced unsprung weight.

Any thoughts?
I run 185/60R15 in the winter and have just replaced the old Hakka 7s with Hakka 8s. I like the comfort.
The 195/50R15s I run in the summer are a very different kettle of fish. They run very stiff (on 7J rims!) and the ride comfort is very much diminished - but the roll and squidge is gone, and there's a lot more immediacy. Both have their advantages.

I am looking to swap my tyres on 15 inch steel wheels. Currently, I have a Summer and Winter Set, both Continentals, both 175/60R15 but looking at putting all seasons on. I am reading good reviews for the AllSeasonContact by Continental, but I would need to go 185/60R15.

My two questions:
- Is this a good idea?
- Does anyone have any experience with these AllSeasonContact tyres (on an A2 or on another type of car)?

Many thanks
It's an OK idea; as Steve writes, it's a compromise but if you want to run only one set of rims and still have good performance in snow, I would go this route.
 
I am looking to swap my tyres on 15 inch steel wheels. Currently, I have a Summer and Winter Set, both Continentals, both 175/60R15 but looking at putting all seasons on. I am reading good reviews for the AllSeasonContact by Continental, but I would need to go 185/60R15.

My two questions:
- Is this a good idea?
- Does anyone have any experience with these AllSeasonContact tyres (on an A2 or on another type of car)?

Many thanks
Thomas see this post - I've been here before.

The conclusion is that although the Continental is good, the Michelin CrossClimate+ are a far better tyre for mild winters, as you can see from the graphic illustrations of braking distances in the dry between the two!

That said, I put a set of the Conti's on my mother's Ford Fiesta and they drive nice - but then even the most average-performing tyres will in normal situations won't they? It's in an emergency where you might be thankful for the difference in performance.

On size - I run 185/60/15 on my summer tyres and it's only 1.7% larger diameter than standard, meaning you won't notice a difference. It's ideal for the A2. I know others run 195/55/15 too.
 
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Thomas see this post - I've been here before.

The conclusion is that although the Continental is good, the Michelin CrossClimate+ are a far better tyre for mild winters, as you can see from the graphic illustrations of braking distances in the dry between the two!

That said, I put a set of the Conti's on my mother's Ford Fiesta and the drive nice - but then even the most average-performing tyres will in normal situations won't they? It's in an emergency where you might be thankful for the difference in performance.

On size - I run 185/60/15 on my summer tyres and it's only 1.7% larger diameter than standard, meaning you won't notice a difference in size. It's ideal for the A2. I know others run 195/55/15 too.
Thanks for that, but the car is going to go to Sicily in the near future, up into the mountains. Not that it's colder than the south of the UK in winter, but there is more variation in terms of weather. One day it can be 15 degrees and sunny, two days later 50cm of snow and minus 10.

Torn between the CrossClimates, the Conti All Seasons and the Good Years (my wife has Good Year winter tyres on the Polo, a real treat)
 
Just a heads up, although they are the perfect size most 185/60 15's tend to be the higher 88 load rating which makes the sidewalls a little stiff for the lightweight A2 so if possible you would be better off buying the 84 load rating which is the other that's generally available and although still a little higher and stiffer than what you would normally choose for the A2 it's better than 88 ?
 
Most all-season and winter tyres have a directional tread pattern.

One disadvantage to having a directional tread pattern is that the spare will only fit correctly in two positions, either the left side or the right side of the car...depending on how the tyre has been fitted to the rim.

Another disadvantage to having a directional tread pattern is that you can't rotate left to right, only front to back.

One of the few non-directional all-season tyres the Vredestein Quatrac 5 is being replaced with the Vredestein Quatrac which has a directional tread pattern.

The new Dunlop Sport All Season doesn't have a directional tread pattern.

Dunlop Sport All Season 165/70R14 81T (Euro Label C B 69dB)

Dunlop Sport All Season 185/65R14 86H (Euro Label C B 69dB)

Dunlop Sport All Season 165/65R15 81T (Euro Label C B 69dB)
 
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Thanks for that, but the car is going to go to Sicily in the near future, up into the mountains. Not that it's colder than the south of the UK in winter, but there is more variation in terms of weather. One day it can be 15 degrees and sunny, two days later 50cm of snow and minus 10.

Torn between the CrossClimates, the Conti All Seasons and the Good Years (my wife has Good Year winter tyres on the Polo, a real treat)
I think you didn’t catch my point - the Michelin is a good all-round performer in cold and warmer weather, the Conti isn’t so good in the warm. Look at the data from the test I link to in my post.
 
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I think you didn’t catch my point - the Michelin is a good all-round performer in cold and warmer weather, the Conti isn’t so good in the warm. Look at the data from the test I link to in my post.

I’ll happily vouch for the Mich CC+ as being very nearly the perfect all season tyre. The newer version (not released yet) by all accounts will be even better. I run them on a 450hp B5 S4 for my winter setup here in Glasgow. I regularly travel north to see my parents and frequently drive in snow and very cold / wet conditions ie they happily handle huge variances in temp and road conditions! I’ve also got Mich PS4’s for my summer set up but they’re not a patch on the CC’s in the wet when temps drop below 5C, which up here can be for 5+ months of the year!


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I’ll happily vouch for the Mich CC+ as being very nearly the perfect all season tyre. The newer version (not released yet) by all accounts will be even better. I run them on a 450hp B5 S4 for my winter setup here in Glasgow. I regularly travel north to see my parents and frequently drive in snow and very cold / wet conditions ie they happily handle huge variances in temp and road conditions! I’ve also got Mich PS4’s for my summer set up but they’re not a patch on the CC’s in the wet when temps drop below 5C, which up here can be for 5+ months of the year!


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I've been running Michelin CCs on pepperpot wheels (195/55x15) and I found the ride to be firmer than I had expected. Currently on Goodyear Efficientgrips on 6-spoke SE wheels (195/45x16) and the ride is a little less firm. Also a lot quieter on the Goodyear.
 
I've been running Michelin CCs on pepperpot wheels (195/55x15) and I found the ride to be firmer than I had expected. Currently on Goodyear Efficientgrips on 6-spoke SE wheels (195/45x16) and the ride is a little less firm. Also a lot quieter on the Goodyear.
The load index of 195/45R16 is 80 (450kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

The load index of 195/55R15 is 85 (515kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

Are you using lower tyre pressures with the 195/55R15 tyre size?

eg. If you are using 32psi with 195/45R16, the equivalent 195/55R15 tyre pressure is 28psi (about 4psi less).
 
The load index of 195/45R16 is 80 (450kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

The load index of 195/55R15 is 85 (515kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

Are you using lower tyre pressures with the 195/55R15 tyre size?

eg. If you are using 32psi with 195/45R16, the equivalent 195/55R15 tyre pressure is 28psi (about 4psi less).

The load index of 195/45R16 is 80 (450kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

The load index of 195/55R15 is 85 (515kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

Are you using lower tyre pressures with the 195/55R15 tyre size?

eg. If you are using 32psi with 195/45R16, the equivalent 195/55R15 tyre pressure is 28psi (about 4psi less).

Nice...thanks for posting this. Glad I checked my other car after reading this. With slightly bigger wheels and tyres I’ve been dropping my psi by up to 6psi from the standard 36psi but after checking I should only be dropping it by 1psi.


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The load index of 195/45R16 is 80 (450kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

The load index of 195/55R15 is 85 (515kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

Are you using lower tyre pressures with the 195/55R15 tyre size?

eg. If you are using 32psi with 195/45R16, the equivalent 195/55R15 tyre pressure is 28psi (about 4psi less).
The load index of 195/45R16 is 80 (450kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

The load index of 195/55R15 is 85 (515kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar)

Are you using lower tyre pressures with the 195/55R15 tyre size?

eg. If you are using 32psi with 195/45R16, the equivalent 195/55R15 tyre pressure is 28psi (about 4psi less).
You've misinterpreted the data. Load index does not change with pressure, but the ability of the tyre to *handle* the load does.
Your tyre has a max load index from the manufacturer. For the 195/50R15s I've been looking at, I see 82 and 86, H, V and W rated tyres. From what I can deduce, the load ratings are given at a nominal 2.5 bar.

There is zero relationship between tyre pressure, tyre size and what actually works well and feels good to you. You'll get recommendations from manufacturers if you ask. They may well be different for different manufacturers, for the same tyre size on the same car. Dunlop, Pirelli and Michelin were all OEM at one point. We had different suggestions from each manufacturer as to what would work well.

Play with your pressures. You may find that 2psi more (or 0,2 bar) gives you a much nicer ride, or maybe not. I found 2.7 / 2.4 undriveable and incredibly skittish but 2.5/2.3 was good. I run 2.5 all-round at the moment for winter on the A2 and completely different settings on the other cars. Biggest thing is to make sure that they are at something like the correct pressure when they are going to be fully laden.

Your pressure *should* be higher to deal with higher loads. Why? because if it's not, the sidewall will flex more. You don't want this.
The sidewall is most of the reason why winter tyres feel stiffer than summer ones, because that sidewall is normally stiffer to deal with the sideways load from the poor grip offered by snow - it won't squidge, it will push into the snow and ice. A higher load index by definition will also normally bring stiffer sidewalls and differing speed ratings may well change how the tyre behaves. But each tyre feels different. I felt this not so long back when I drove three Octavias the same trip a few days after the other (my own car broke - it went in twice and I had a loaner twice, both 1.4 TSI Octys from Avis with absolute poverty spec.). Each car had different tyres, all in the same size. The Michelins let go way nicer than the cheap Nordmans, and the transition to slip was more progressive on the Michelins than my Nokians. The squidge was similar on all three, but the Nordmans simply scrabbled way more and braking was less effective. They are all the same load index, size, winter rating, studs, but feel very different. It does confirm my thought, though, that you generally really do get what you pay for. The Michelins and Nokians are in the €800/ set class, the Nordmans a couple of hundred cheaper.
 
Silly question, I guess, but I have encountered the following problem. As my car will need to be imported to Italy, it might be a good idea to stick to the COC mentioned sizes, which means I have to stick to the 175/60 to avoid any potential issues. The only all season tyres I can find are the Michelin CrossClimate+, however only in XL version, i.e. 85 load rating instead of the usual 81 for that size... Will this be a problem?
 
All season tyres 185/50 R16 81H
some good news for this unusual tyre size

9 of the BEST All Season / All Weather Tires for 2021
results:
4 Vredstein Quatrac C/B/70
3 Continental AllSeasonContact B/B/72
2 Pirelli Cinturato All Season SF2 B/B/68
1 Michelin CrossClimate 2 B/B/69

… for milder areas where snow is rare
3 Vredstein Quatrac C/B/70
2 Pirelli Cinturato All Season SF2 B/B/68
1 Michelin CrossClimate 2 B/B/69

… are any of these available in: 185/50 R16 81 V/H (or 195/55 R16) ?

3 Vredstein Quatrac D/B/70 185/50 R16 81H ; larger size load rating too high 87H
https://www.vredestein.co.uk/car-suv-van/tyre-finder/tyres/product/1/185/50/16/1815-quatrac

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Vredestein/Quatrac.htm/price/185-50-16
cheapest price delivered £69.09

2 Pirelli Cinturato All Season SF2 *unavailable in either size
https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-gb/car/catalogue/product/cinturato-all-season-sf-2

1 Michelin CrossClimate 2 D/B/69 185/50 R16 81H; larger size load rating too high 87H
https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-crossclimate-2

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/CrossClimate-2.htm/price/185-50-16
cheapest price delivered £122.49 !!

Note that for both the Vredstein and the Michelin, the fuel efficient class rating for 185/50 R16 81H is D, rather than the tyre size tested by tyre reviews.com

I am intending to order a couple of Vredstein Quatrac 185/50 R16 81H for the rear axle of my A2. Seeing as I had done the homework, thought I would share the fruits here

Andrew

PS more test results for the new Vredstein Quatrac

Post Script:
On 04-Oct-2021 I placed my order for Vredstein Quatrac 85/50 R16 81H tyres with the cheapest (cheapest price delivered £69.09) supplier 123tyres.co.uk Had an email immediately having placed the order making it obvious they were an overseas company who don't hold stock in the UK; my expected delivery date was 13-Oct-2021. My MoT wasn't due until 25-Oct-2021 so all was fine. Today (due delivery date) I checked with the courier DPD: the package had been very promptly dispatched on 04-Oct, and received at UK Customs on 05-Oct ... and there the tracking stopped. I was able to cancel the order on the basis I need them for the MoT (not strictly true) and there was no way 123tyres.co.uk could guarantee the package would be released by UK Customs.

In the intervening days between 04-Oct-2021 and 13-Oct-2021 the prices of these tyres has increased by around £13!! £82 is now a good delivered price.

Thankfully camskill.co.uk, who no longer appear anywhere near the top of an internet search, are still offering them at a great price, and appear to have access to stock in the UK. We will see ...

19-Oct-2021: Vredstein Quatrac 85/50 R16 81H tyres from camskill.co.uk were delivered to WOM Automotive last Friday morning, 15-Oct-2021 two days after ordering. Rob tells me they are now fitted, and I’m looking forward to driving a full set of all season tyres for the first time when I collect my car later this week
 
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Wheels:
Sizes of wheels that will fit an A2 (non 3l! - the 3L was not sold in the UK and therefore not covered here)

Widths and diameters
5.5 - 7J, 15, 16, 17, 18". 7.5J works for some, not for others. Check for signs of argument on the wheelarch liners.
8J is really pushing it and frequently requires work on the arch liners.

14" was never supplied as standard on any A2 apart from the 1.2. They are reported to fit over the brake calipers at the front if the standard 256mm are used. You will end up with 165/70 or so tyres.

ET numbers
For most wheels, somewhere between 30 and 35 will work. ET37 is standard on the 5.5s, 35 on a 7.5 will be tight but should work. Significant discrepancies are bad and may need to be compensated with spacers.
The standard 7x17s are ET38, Parabols ("TT competition") are ET32. This is very close to the limit for 205s / 215s if the tread is to remain in the arch, which it must from a legal perspective.

PDC
There are 5 bolts on all A2s except the 3l ones.
PDC is 100, so 5x100. A3 8L, TT 8N, Golf IV (1J), Octy (NOT 1Z), Fabia, Roomster, Bora, will all fit.
A4, A6, Golf V, A3 8P, TT 8J WILL NOT FIT.

Center bore is 57.1.

155/65R15 are the only tyre size with an OK for snow chains.

Tyres:

OE tyre sizes are underlined. These, along with 155/65R15 and 165/65R15 are the only tyres that are truly 100% compatible and listed in the CoC document.

Before we start, some sizes that won't fit: 195/65R15, 205/55R16, 225/45R17. They are too big.
Recommendations:


14": extremely rare. Brings narrow tread width and high sidewalls, so lots of roll. Advantages over light 15" are questionable at best. Potentially poor braking performance.

15" for comfort. 185/60R15 work well, but may be "squidgy". Common, relatively cheap. Good for "pepperpots", as everything is light and the sizes work well. Strong recommendation for these in winter.
195/50R15: significantly smaller, cheap. Nice short sidewall, sportier feel.

16"
185/50R16: great compromise between looks and comfort. Hard to find, expensive.
195/45R16: smaller sidewall means less flex so less roll but also less comfort. Wide range, not too bad price-wise.
205/50R16: Absolute maximum versus rubbing.

17"
205/40R17 are standard. Quite wooden, may be your taste, may not.
215/40R17 are large and heavy. Work OK, but I saw issues with rubbing, others have gone even 215/45R17 without issue. Not all cars are the same!

Winter tyres:
Stick to 15". Either 175/60R15 (hard to find!) or 185/60R15. If using alloys, make sure they are good for winter use; the salts attack some coatings more than others.
If you're looking at CrossClimates or similar, then by all means go 16", but for pure winter tyres, the price increases significantly the larger you go, so smaller is probably better.

Summer tyres:
15"


155/70
165/65
175/55
175/60 (reference size)
185/55
185/60
195/50
195/55 - identical rolling circumference to 205/40R17
205/50
205/55
225/50

16"

175/50
175/55
185/50
195/45

195/50
205/45
205/50 more than 3% larger, will fit but not necessarily legal
215/40
215/45
225/40

17"

195/45
205/40
205/45 more than 3% larger, will fit but not necessarily legal
215/40 - this may work, it may catch. Check!
215/35
225/35
245/35

18"

205/35
215/35
225/35 more than 3% larger, will fit but not necessarily legal
225/30

If it's not on the list, it will not fit without work / rubbing.

Tyres that will not fit, so don't buy, unless they're on rims you really want and are prepared to sell the tyres on:
195/65R15
205/55R16
225/45R17.

You will find these from TTs, Golf IV, Octavias, A3s and others: the tyres are way too big, your speedo will be wrong and they will rub.

Rim sizes... for rim protection worth the name, stay away from the max. The real way to get these is to ask the manufacturer.

- 165 - 5J - 6J
- 185 - 5J - 6J
- 195 - 6J - 7J
- 205 - 6.5 - 7.5J
- 215 - 7J - 8J
- 225 - 7J - 8J

Reference tyre test web site - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/

General point:
All A2s have ESP. Running different tyre sizes across an axle or front to back will probably confuse the system. Running even different makes may produce enough of a difference in circumference to annoy the ESP or ASR systems and give you blinking lights in corners.
The tyres with more profile belong on the back of the car as that is the axle that delivers stability at speed.

Deeper dive about EDS, ASR and ESP and why different sizes matter:
Why might these uneven sizes cause issues? Both the ESP and ASR systems are looking at the difference in rotational speed between the wheels. ASR will attempt to get more traction if one side is spinning faster than the other, using EDS and interfering in engine management to get what it wants; ESP will assume you're sliding. Both will result in unclear car behaviour and flashing warning lights.
EDS will try to modulate engine power to suit the traction available in combination with ASR. So in extreme situations, turning ASR off is a good idea with that button next to the gearstick, as long as you remember to modulate the pedal instead to make the most of the available grip. I turn it off regularly in winter when I know I have an interesting turn to make or want as much control as possible or it's a steeper hill.
ASR will come back on automatically when you go over 60km/h (ca. 40mph), though you can still see it intervening up past 80km/h (not that I'd recommend testing this on a public road). EDS - the system that splits torque and works with the ASR - will *not* bring you any lights up but you might feel it anyway, mostly when accelerating hard with good tyres on dodgy surfaces at medium speeds, i.e. winter tyres on icy roads at 30-50km/h, or 20-30mph.

A note on ESP: if the car is not rotating around its axis, ESP will not do anything. If you are just sliding nicely evenly on a corner, ESP will do nothing. You need to act on the slide, apply power or steering, or the sensors will report "everything is fine" and nothing will be done.
If you're getting blinking ASR lights around corners or on straights while accelerating, you have a problem that needs tracking down. Might just be tyre pressures, might be a loose bolt somewhere - it needs looking at, sooner rather than later.

On extreme car behaviour: Yes, you can spin an A2, but ESP does need to be off and it's difficult and extremely obvious that it's going to happen. And yes, you can turn ESP off, but only if you're prepared to remove a fuse or disconnect the yaw sensor. IMO, It's not worth it, the back won't step out at will. I have spent much time trying to make this happen and I have a switch to turn it off. You will get error messages if you remove the fuse. On gravel, in the summer, you'll be about to put some opposite lock on and the ESP will go "Crrrrsh" and you'll have been corrected. It's not perfect, it's slower than it might be, but it's pretty nicely judged.
So informative, great post, thank you?????????
 
I can vouch for the cross climate had them on my Macan. When I changed them I went to summer tyres as being in Spain the car doesnt get so much poor weather and put on P Zeros and they're dreadful back to back with the michelins.

If I can get suitable michelins for the A2 when it needs tyres then that's what will be my first choice.
 
Hi,
The answer for this might be somewhere in the thread but can’t find it… will A3 pepperpots (8L0601025E) shod with 185/60/R15 fit on my TDI90, with its rear disc brakes, just as they are, without requiring spacers?
Thanks!
 
The rear discs on the 90,s/fsi,s tend to rust up after a relatively short period of time. Pepperpots may help to provide better protection and cover for them from the elements.
 
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