Thinking of buying ...

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kevinj

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All I currently looking at buying an A2. Now having yet to test drive an A2, the Tdi looks the best, but I've received some bad comments from other people how loud the engine is etc.

So comments would be appreciated, also on the general problem front - common faults etc. What is the service interval ..

Finally seeing the threads on for 2nd hand values of the cars I would appreciate guidance of values.

Thanks
 
personally I think that the 1.6fsi is worth having a look at as well, good economy but not as loud as the diesel! Although all diesels tend to be louder anyway. I would try and test drive this one as well for comparison I did and opted for the 1.6fsi. Good Luck

A2 1.6fsi sport climate cd amulet red
 
I looked at the petrol and diesel, chose the diesel and am pleased I've done so. Sure its noisey and if you're after a high level of refinement then petrol is the way to go. You'll only notice the noise when stationary however - over 30 and its the same as a petrol. Two key benefits of the diesel are:

1. in gear acceleration (I do some motorway driving, and it easily goes from 60 - 80 (or more) and is suprising good for overtaking.
2. economy - mine does over 60MPG even though I 'use the performance'!!

If you're worried about depreciation, then use it to your advantage and get a second hand one - there are some great deals around. Personally I think the rapid fall has been caused by Audi dealers dumping a load of demo models last year creating a big imbalance between supply/demand. I'd be surprised if prices don't firm up this year as they are still quite a rare car, and one thats potentially desirable compared to the alternatives.
 
I've had a number of A2s over the years of all types. Yesterday and today I've been loaned an A2 TDI while our 1.6 FSI is having its TV adjusted.

I'd say that the TDI feels a lot heavier and noisier than the petrols, and you are more aware that you are driving a diesel than you might (or should) expect. The FSI has the edge on throttle response and feel, TDI is quick once it spins up.

On the motorway (when the engine is turning over at 2500 or so) the pickup available is great. Also the economy is vastly superior to either of the petrols (probably 40 versus 55+), and with the bigger fuel tank on the 2003 model it may be crucial if your doing lots of miles each week and hate filling up

I'm about to pickup the FSI now, so I'll re-check all these points out soon.

Dave

1.6SE
 
thanks DaveS - Will be interesting for further responses.

I've currenty got a Smart at the mo and need more space, and think the A2 looks fantastic. In terms of miles to travel it will be low mileage use, but used every day. I think I'll start trawling Autotrader etc now ....
 
word of warning, drive the car your going to buy, my dealer makes it a habbit of not allowing you to do this, hence why i was sold this trash i got under the impression it would drive like the demo and courtesy cars i drove, it turns out the cars underpowered, gears are stiff not stiff enough for the expereinced driver to complain but stiff enough for an 18 yr old who started off driving smooth cars with nice gearboxes from learning to test to 1st car this 2nd car is kak, also make sure that everything is checked before buying, my car slipped through with 95% brake where, blown drivers side main beam, broken links for anti roll bar, overall the worst case of lose trims of the lot of ya, poor acceleration, stiff gears (stiff enough for me to complain that is).

However on a brighter note my diesel is sweet as hell drives like a dream, if you want my advice i would say go for a tdi as the petrols which come in second hand especcially with post 10k mls tend to have been thrashed by would be boy racers or drivers who just overestimate the power of the car and end up leaving it driving all sh!tty, go TDI petrols second hand are a big no no.

1.4SE petrol 2001, Dark interior, Sat cloth, Brilliant Silver, 3 spoke Steering wheel, Rear electric windows and Panasonic MR555 stereo, Panasonic 8CD changer, 10 speakers (2 extra 13" 190 watt each.)

1.4TDiSE 2002, Biege interior, Brilliant Black, Concert II.
 
I've (virtually) gone full circle and have come back to the A2 (via Merc A class, Golf, Leon, Fabia, A3). But second prices are putting me off. Not because they are high, but because trading it in would be like shooting yourself in the head!

Second hand prices are not so bad as you might think. The pre-2003 model cars have been hit quite a bit, and so have high milers (not too many of them about though).

There are few tdi's under 10 grand. But that's about all you can say. Prices seem to be all over the place. There many 2001 cars around the 12k mark. Yet there are some mid-2002 cars at the same mark. You can equally find a 2001 car at the 15k as a similar spec 2002 car. It's mad. I have not yet been able to work out why one A2 is cheaper than the other when they appear identitical.

But I think the same is true with all Audi's. Look at A3's, their prices are just as made: 2003 TDI 130 for £16,000 at one dealer, while a 2001 model is £17000 at another with leather being the only difference. Crackers.

I think if you go for a 02 or 52 reg tdi SE model for less than £11,000, then that would be a good buy. I doubt it will loose much in the next couple of years (as long as you sell privately!).

I think prices may be high because big discounts are available. There are shed loads of A2's available at Audi dealers, and considering they are not too happy get an A2 as a p/x, prices should be very flexible.

And, what's with all the 4000-5000 mile A2's that dealers seem to be offering - usually identical colour and spec?
 
FACtOR,

Are you seriously saying all petrol A2's are thrashed to within an inch of their lives, then traded in for some unsuspecting punter to come along and buy? I have a Punto HGT (a rapid little beast which I do drive quite hard) and the A2. I find the A2 a very calming drive and after the punto, I just want to cruise along with minimal fuss in the A2 - which it does very well.

I'm not disagreeing that you have a rogue car but surely the first rule of buying a second hand car is to test drive it. If the dealer won't let you - walk away. I've never heard of not being allowed a drive - absurd.

Finally, you must be in a very lucky position to own 2 A2's at your age. My general opinion is that most owners of these cars are late 20's upwards, who have left their hellraising days behind and now require a sensible car after their pocket rockets of yester-year. This is why I find it hard to agree with you about the "thrashed by would be boy racers" phrase."

Or perhaps I'm wrong and this is why second hand prices are so low.

1.4SE petrol in Merlot Red, Biege interior, 16" 5 spoke alloys, DIS, Open Sky, Elec rear windows.
 
Just picked up our FSI after dropping off the TDI.

First off, any A2 is a great car and Audi should be applauded for turning the concept into reality. Its just shades of greatness in my opinion. However as with any radical idea there have been some problems, in both the build quality and Audi UK / Audi dealer responses to certain problems.

I was lucky enough to be given numerous A2s as courtesy cars whilst my A6 TDI was being serviced (every 4 months - 30k/year) - and this got us into A2 ownership. When I was given my first courtesy A2 I though it was a joke. However, once I'd seen its Tardis like interior - and sporty (for an Audi) driving style I was hooked.

Comparing TDI to FSI back to back again, I'd stick with my earlier comments. It may have been just the TDI I had, but it feels heavier to drive than the petrols. The TDI needs just under 2000rpm to feel comfortable and pulls hard from 2500 to 4500, much lower than 2k and it feels like its straining(unlike my old A6) - this means because of the high gearing you need to change gear a fair bit (3rd up to 30, 4th up to 40, 5th only 50 and above). Our FSI pulls cleanly from anout 1500, and starts pulling strongly at 2500, so you can keep it in 5th from under 40.

Main thing is to get as long a test drive as you can - hopefully back to back with a TDI and a petrol. To get near the performance of the TDI you have to go for the FSI, which also has the benefit of the larger fuel tank.

The 1.4 petrol is fine up to about 50, and actually feels faster than it really is. Once wound up on a motorway at 80 its great as 5th gets into the power band. But get baulked and it means lots of down changes to get going again. That was the main reason why we switched to an FSI.

If you're doing lots of miles the econmic reasons for going for a TDI (mpg, servicing) do add up (e.g. £900/year at 30k miles just in fuel). At 10k/year its less clear cut.

As for common faults, as a general guide probably the newer the car the better. Though older cars that have been sorted (as per our old 1.4) can make good buys if you can get all the history on it. Searching the threads would be a good idea, as I don't think there is a FAQ available - please shoot me down if there is. A small list of my own:
  • driveshaft clunks
  • windscreen wiper design
  • loom problems
  • AM Radio reception
  • condensation in headlights
  • various trim rattles
  • boot not shutting properly
  • mooing noise from EGR valve
What budget have you got ? TDIs seem to go for about 1k more than similar age 1.4 petrols, there are some good value nearly new FSIs around as the recent £250 climate/paint offer took 1k of the list price of al A2s.

We sold our 1.4 SE 2000/X 12k miles for £9k recently which was a fair price. Dealers will add at least £1k to private prices. All cars will still have part of their 3 year warranty left, but be aware there are some odd spec imported models around.

Dave

1.6SE
 
I understand where your coming from, but having driven numerous A2's i find mine drives the worst of the lot, its sluggish and the gears are stiffer, possibly i got a rogue car but i find it rather reminisant of a friend of mine who bought an A2 petrol to find it also a bit sluggish compared to other A2's they have driven be it demo or courtesy, the fact remains its easier to damage a petrol engine rather than a diesel as the diesel engines are more refined are have a higher threshhold for extreme acceleration (trying to clock the official 12sec). I agree with you on the second hand prices they are rather iratic if anything, i think this is due to the flooding of ex demo cars and the fact that the A2 is not selling as much as hoped so thus a backlog of cars builds up and those who have loads of A2's sell em cheap, those who have few sell them at a slightly inflated price, this is most noticable with tdi prices, it is rare to find an '02 O2 plate tdiSE for under £11k infact it just doesnt happen your looking for more £12.5-13.5k range.

1.4SE petrol 2001, Dark interior, Sat cloth, Brilliant Silver, 3 spoke Steering wheel, Rear electric windows and Panasonic MR555 stereo, Panasonic 8CD changer, 10 speakers (2 extra 13" 190 watt each.)

1.4TDiSE 2002, Biege interior, Brilliant Black, Concert II.
 
DaveS, i agree entirely with your post except a 2 things, 1 where do you see these cheap tdi's SE's ofcourse, and 2 i find that the tdi actually changes up gears slower than the petrol if in anything more than 3rd at 40 to car will feel like its struggling, 4th gear at 40+ 5th gear around the 60+ mark. even in to 1.4 petrol i find this to be the case.

1.4SE petrol 2001, Dark interior, Sat cloth, Brilliant Silver, 3 spoke Steering wheel, Rear electric windows and Panasonic MR555 stereo, Panasonic 8CD changer, 10 speakers (2 extra 13" 190 watt each.)

1.4TDiSE 2002, Biege interior, Brilliant Black, Concert II.
 
FACtOR,

I'd still contend that there is a £1k diffence between 1.4SE and 1.4TDI SE. Bear in mind that the oldest TDI is 2001 and our 1.4 SE was 2000.

Looking at the Audi UK site shows lots of 2001 TDI SEs up for £11,995, with 2001 1.4 SEs up for £10,995.

On the gearing front I was comparing the TDI with the FSI. On the TDI I was just expressing that the gearing is quite high on the TDI (to give the exceptional economy) and that the engine feels laboured if asked to pull from 1500. This combination gives the need to be in 3rd around town, and its not till your past 50 that you can comfortably leave it in 5th. This is just my driving style. I mention it mainly as my old 6 speed 2.5 TDI A6 seemd much more flexible despite its intergalactic 6th gear - I guess its the torque to weight ratio.

And as mentioned by yourself, the A2s do seem to vary a lot.

Dave

1.6SE
 
KevinJ
We test drove both TDi and petrol. The petrol is quieter as you expect, but once the TDi is moving, not much in it.

However, if you do a lot of start-stop driving then IMHO the TDi would wear on you, and I found you had to coax the TDi along otherwise the acceleration is fierce-but that's down to driving style as much as anything.

I did have a 1.6FSi as a courtesey car once and it was fine-engine was lively and the interior was up to usual Audi quality (no 2 A2's are identical!).

Think hard about your mileage-diesel is slighty more expensive and will you really benefit from the possibly higher purchase cost versus fuel consumption versus refinement.

As for values, I can only cry at my own experience-a 2003 A2 1.4 petrol, metallic, 52 (september 2002) plate with 3800miles on the clock and I got £9500 in part ex. I cried all the way to the bank. So will it be on the forcourt for £10,500?. Hardly no preperation needed to get it up to sell. £1k for the dealer?. I bet not-more like £11k+. I'm in the wrong job here!.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
it will deff be on the forcourt for 12499 or 12999 as its such a late model with those miles.

1.4SE petrol 2001, Dark interior, Sat cloth, Brilliant Silver, 3 spoke Steering wheel, Rear electric windows and Panasonic MR555 stereo, Panasonic 8CD changer, 10 speakers (2 extra 13" 190 watt each.)

1.4TDiSE 2002, Biege interior, Brilliant Black, Concert II.
 
Factor

So a nice bit of money to be had in selling new cars for £14,500 then buying back for £9500 and then selling again for £12500!. Anyone want to set up a used A2 supermarket?.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior
 
Steve

Not really as good as it looks, the dealers £12,500 includes £1,860 VAT for our good friend Gordon Brown (must be a good friend the amount of money we give him!). so the dealer is only adding around £1k to the trade in assuming he sells at asking price.

Now if I was a VAT registered company I could buy the car for £12300 (£14500 without VAT) and charge the dealer VAT on the £9500 making it £11,162 ! ! ! ! !

Ian

2002 1.4 Petrol SE, silver with climate control.
Why are all the A2s in Lichfield are silver ? ? ?
 
There is no VAT payable on secondhand goods, including cars. The VAT is paid on a new sale, and that's it.
 
Oh, a little for those people that say that car depreciation is so great in the first year because a car loses its VAT as soon as the car is sold. Rubbish!

A car is worth whatever a person is willing to pay for it, no matter who got what share of the original price paid. If you have a choice of buying a new one for £15000, or an identical day old one for £14,000 you will buy the latter no matter whether the VAT was over £2000 on the new car.

Even if the same dealer buys back the car, it's what he can re-sell it for that is relevant to him and not that only £12500 of the original £15000 went into his coffers.
 
Look at Mini's-secondhand going for slightly more than new list price. You often see ex-demo motors with a few hundred miles for a grand less-the VAT is more than that.

Steve - 2002 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior, Then an identical replacement 2003 A2. Now a Toyota Corolla 1.6 T-Spirit
 
kevinj

Why do you think most taxis are diesels?

The old argument that you need to do more than 10,000 miles pa to justify the diesel premium is true but mainly on new cars where the TDI is priced higher. Buy a second hand one!

Reliability wise a TDI will wear far less than a petrol engine - petrol is a cutting fluid and the engine operates at a higher rpm than the equivalent diesel.


Check Audi Driver magazine (Dec 2002 issue) for figures:

To summarise:

Power: FSI 110 bhp at 5800 rpm
TDI 75bhp at 4000 rpm
1.4 petrol: 75bhp at 5000 rpm

Torque: (pulling power/tractability)
FSI:115 lbft at 4500 rpm
TDI: 144lbft at just 2200 rpm
1.4 petrol: only 93 lbft at a revvy 3800 rpm

this translates into:

1.6 FSI is quicker than the TDi to 60mph - by 2.3 secs - so useful if you wanna burn out at the lights.

Personally I don't!

1.4 TDI is quicker than 1.6 FSI for overtaking:

30-50mph in 3rd: 5.2 secs (FSI manages it in 5.5, 1.4 petrol 5.6)
50-70mph in 5th: 10.3 secs (FSI is 11.9,1.4 petrol: 12.2)

Economy:

43.6 TDI/35.98 FSI/37.3 1.4 petrol

and FSI uses more expensive petrol (high octane low sulphur fuel)around 5 to 10 p per litre more than 95UL.

Diesel prices in Nottingham are 1 p per ltr more than 95 unleaded.

Finally if you wanna do your bit to cut CO2 emissions then the diesel pumps out 114 gms/km where as the FSI emits 142gms/km

Happy hunting!


Or you could go even more extreme and buy a second hand 1.2 TDI from Germany and get 66mpg at 100mph on the autobahn!



Lukas

First A2 1.2 TDI in UK
Style pack + Chorus + Advance pack + winter wheels + iRiver MP3CD
 
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