Warning ! in DIS

John L

John L

A2OC Donor
Hi,
Yet more issues with the car.
Today I was driving down hill pressed the brakes and they seemed very soft.
On pumping the brakes they worked reasonably well.
I have not yet had the opportunity to look for puddles of fluid uner the car. But one of the front brake lines was reported to be a little damaged.
Could it be something simpler as the ABS light does not flash? There are no other warning lights and only the Drivers Information System shows anything.
Does anyone have any opinion as to whether it would be safe to drive it to the garage in this condition or should I request recovery?
The rear drums are not in great shape but there was no warning for the front brakes and when the brake pedal was pressed it slows the car slowly but has no resistance until pumped.
The car sort of skidded a little to the right when the brake was pressed hard and the front right was I think the bad pipe. Would a VAG-COM scan show any fault codes if the ! comes on?

The car is a 1.2 diesel 2002 model.
 
Hello John
First off, if you are having trouble with brakes it's best to carry out a thorough investigation immediately. If you don't feel confident, get the car to a service department for expert advice. Perhaps consider a transporter if the situation is dire.
As to the fault you describe it sounds either like a shortage of fluid or a binding/seized brake caliper. The vehicle should not skid and points to an ABS issue.
If it pulls to one side during braking if points to un-equal brake force between the front brakes or could even be as simple as low tyre pressure.
The red (!) exclamation mark on the DIS warning indicates a brake fault, probably low fluid. Normally an ABS fault will bring up the ABS warning either on its own or in combination with the red (!) exclamation mark.
Hope this helps, let us know how you get along.

blue skies
tony
 
Tony,

The brake problems occurred when i was going down hill. Coming toward the bottom of the hill I pressed the pedal and nothing much happened. There was a very gradual slowing but this stopped at about 20-30km/h where the brakes lost all power. So at this point I tried pumping the pedal and was able to stop but felt the car pulling right as I did so. The ESP engaged as did the ABS.
The warning light did not show yet. I then tried the brakes again and they seemed very soft so on a level road I accelerated to 40km and then presssed the brake, same problem, so I pumped hard. This stopped the car quickly but also made a loud clunk from the right hand side forward.
The ! only came on as I drove back up the hill to take the car home to investigate.
I can see no traces of leaking fluid under/around the car and wonder if it is worth removing the bonent to check? Also how does brake fluid look/smell?
I am thinking of calling the local AA type people to look at it and/or tow it back to the dealer.
Last week I had the 60,000km service and they reported no issues with the front brakes. The rear shoes and drum are worn and will soon be changed. I am alarmed by having this fault so soon after the service reported nothing.
Also the dealer did a brake fluid change a couple of weeks ago and I am wondering if this could be related?

I did a VCDS-Lite scan and found no stored error codes.

John
 
There was some liquid on the ground near the rear tyre but also some diesel marks under the filler cap. I concluded I had been a bit generous with topping up in the evening and the diesel had expanded in the sun.
However on tipping water onto the wet area on the ground there were only a few bubbles appearing and no coloured marbling such as would be expected from diesel.
On touching the liquid it has a strange almost metallic smell and after a few seconds it becomes lightly tacky on my fingers. Could this be the brake fluid?

John
 
Hi John,

This sounds to me like you have either lost brake fluid or the garage that did the fluid change used the wrong fluid or didn't bleed the system fully.

Depending how the new fluid was bled into the system, there may pipe work that has become partially parted.
I had this after my last fluid change.
My fluid was changed using a pressure system. The pressure caused pipe work at the bulkhead to become parted.
However the fluid loss was clearly evident.

I would suggest removing the bonnet and checking the master brake cylinder has fluid, and it is at the correct level. If this all looks fine you should speak with the garage that performed the fluid change and ask exactly what fluid they used.

Cheers

Jeff
 
Hi,

I ended up with brake failure caused by failure of a brake cylinder that was installed a month and less than 400km earlier.
I have some photos of the pair of cylinder's.
The issue I am having is that the brake failure happened on the same side as the ABS sensor failed. I paid the dealer to inspect the ABS sensor and they concluded it was "worn" and needed replacement. They informed me it was safe to drive the car for several days whilst the new sensor was sent from Germany.
On returning the car to the dealer 4-5 days later they told me all was fixed.
Then on driving forward the ABS alarm went off again and so I immediately returned to the dealer who informed me that they had detected that the bearing needed to be changed and so could not change the ABS sensor and that it was bad but that the car remained safe to drive.
On finally changing the ABS sensor and bearing they conducted a 60,000km service and all seemed fine. Then a few days later I had brake failure.

On the notes with the service they stated that the brake drums and shoes needed replacingg but not the cylinders.

The wear on the photos is so uneven and the failure was on the wheel with the bad bearing. Could this cause this kind of damage? Also shouldn't the bearing have been found when a no contact part (the ABS sensor) has obvious contact wear? It seems to me that the dealer has been rather negligent and I would just like anyones opinion...

John DSC00592.jpgDSC00593.jpgDSC00594.jpgDSC00595.jpgDSC00596.jpgDSC00597.jpg
 
Hi John
The latest pics you posted clearly show a rear drum brake slave cylinder boot that has failed.
It is highly unusual to have such damage to the boot and this raises two questions.
If this damage was there when the work was started, why was it not recorded/reported or authorisation sought for rectification? Certainly even a minor split would make the vehicle unsafe to operate.
The alternative is very poor workmanship - this damage would most likely occur if the brake shoes are brought into contact with the boot when fitting against the return spring tension. This happens if the correct tools are not available, ie a spring puller.
My money is on the second option!
Disappointing really, I teach young students at a college and continually stress the importance of quality workmanship and how very small errors can have very dire consequences. Take the vehicle back, demand a warranty repair and a sincere apology from the service manager. Then, name and shame them - workmanship like this is simply not acceptable. Also, be sure to ask them to carry out an inspection on the other side and insist that the brake shoes be replaced due to contamination - they cannot be cleaned. Let us know how you get along.

blue skies
tony

my opinion is that whoever worked on your brakes was either very negligenyt in
 
I had a similar problem.

My original cylinder on the rear left perished and spilt it contents so it can happen - but as tony said they should have picked up on it.

I do also know that it is very easy to damage a cylinder when changing the shoes as I have done this myself while removing the springs and I sliced straight through the rubber boot - end of cyclinder - so had to get a new one.

Could be either in your case - but the garages either way
 
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