Harsh ride

Hi All,

I have had my 2003 1.6 fsi sport for just over 3 months now, and its great, I have done a few minor fixes on it and its running really well. but im starting to think about how I can improve the ride, as im finding it a bit on the harsh side.

I have the standard 17" sport alloys and as far as I can tell the rest of the suspension etc is standard...

Initial thoughts are to:

Change the wheels to 16" to get a more standard tyre (as the current ones are low profile)
Upgrade the springs and or shock absorbers
Limit my speed to about 30mph and just take far longer to get anywhere : )

Has anyone managed to improve the ride of their FSI? im open to all options and suggestions. I don't want to spend a huge amount of money, but would like to make the ride a little smoother if I can.


Thanks

I won't repeat my points about how small the difference is between 16" and 17" tyres (my pet subject).

But it you have a sport version of the A2 and that comes with slightly stiffer springs. You also have a very light car and so when you hit a bump the car moves not the suspension.

i personally like the firm ride because it means that the car does not roll from side to side much when cornering and the steering is slightly more responsive.

If if you go to 16" wheels the difference will be minimal because you still have a light car and stiff(ish) springs.

So so don't expect a big difference (other than psychologically)

half an an inch more on the sidewalk of the tyre is not a big enough change to have any significant effect.

I I am only saying this to make you aware that the cost of switching (which should not be much because some people like the 17" Sport wheels a lot (appearance wise) may not give you much of an improvement.

Others r a have switched from 17s to 16s and like the difference so ther are two sides to the story.
I personally like the ride on my 18s and I have never had any complaints from passengers about the ride.
steve B

There are about a million posts about the A2s poor ride and how to improve it!

As Steve implies the A2 will never ride like a Rolls Royce and making improvements will cost money but gains are achievable.

The plushest ride you could get is to drop to 15s, fit Monroe Reflex shocks and Spidan SE springs. This will give you more sidewall, better damping and a lower spring rate.

Personally I have 16s with 195/50/16, Koni FSD dampers and Weitec sport springs. It's better than the stock sport setup and still has a bit of presence to it.

I have had 15s, 16s and 17s on my car. Wheel size does seem to significantly alter the car's ccharacteristics.

I have the 1.4 Sport with the same wheels as yours. I recommend going for a 45 profile tyre rather than the standard 40 profile, the difference is astonishing, my A2 drives so smoothly now and that's with the stiffer Sport springs.

Agree with the replies.

To achieve a noticeably better ride, you would have to change shocks, softer springs and smaller wheels that have the correct tyres.

I remember my tdi90 SE on 16's was quite comfortable compared to my Sport on 17's.

Yesterday "The project" was in for a service and I had to use a Skoda as a courtesy car (an old one) it was ok actually. Much of the controls etc were similar due to the VW influence.

As for the ride, it was very different (of course) it was on 15s and so the tyres were slightly softer. So was it a more comfortable ride. In short NO (personal opinion)
was it a softer ride ? YES.

The problem with a softer ride is the car wallows a bit more and to me that is not comfort.

The steering was less precise the cornering made me sea sick and when it hit a pothole it didn't absorb it (no car could)

So again in my own opinion, the ride was softer but not more comfortable.
Most of the reason for it being softer was due to the car being heavier and so it soaked up some of the bumps a bit better.

But at the risk of repeating myself. It doesn't matter about facts and science, what matters is that if you feel the car is more comfortable on 16s or even 15s then it IS more comfortable. That is the definition of comfort, a pleasing experience.
So there are two camps, one which likes the former ride, former cornering and appearance of 17s (or even 18s) and the other camp that would sacrifice the marginal handling and steering improvements for the perceived benefit of a slightly larger sidewall. Both "camps" should respect each other and realise that it is just a personal preference.
Not is not simply 17" harsh, 16" smooth. There is far more to it than that.

So so if you feel your A2 ride is more firm than you would like, then by all means try alternatives but don't expect miracles.
One last word from me on this, before you invest in new wheels and tyres, check your tyre pressures. A few pounds too high will make the ride harder.
So it costs nothing to check your pressures first.

No offence meant to anyone, just a mutual respect to the other "camp".

Steve B

The A2 is a light car, with a short wheelbase and a high centre of gravity, using very unsophisticated suspension components which was (I think) given overly stiff suspension as a reaction to the launch-period A-Klass Mercs failing the Elk Test. All those things conspire to give it a difficult start in life when it comes to ride quality.

I think sound is also one aspect to perceived ride quality - because there's so little noise damping in the A2, when you hit bumps/potholes you hear them as much as feel them, and I reckon that makes it sound more harsh just from a psychological point of view?!

Steve you're absolutely right about softer riding cars not necessarily being more comfortable where it becomes "floaty" and you start to feel like you're on a ship at sea (and then passengers get travel sick)! But the A2 has always been on the jittery end of the firm spectrum - much like most Audis to be honest - chassis dynamics has always been Audi's Achilles heel / design language (I was amazed at how well the BMW i3 drove/handled/rode the other day with it's 20" wheels on it was still extremely compliant, but smooth, and not floaty or crashy).

I would add that the overall weight of a car does not make it vulnerable to a good or bad ride per se, what's more important is the ratio of unsprung to sprung mass (I.e. Wheels, tyres, suspended bits to the car's weight). The A2 is not remarkably light but lighter wheels and softer/larger sidewalls will change the dynamic characteristics, and tyre pressures perhaps more so! As to the best compromise, YMMV, but certainly switching to 15s does all but eliminate crashy characteristics.

To add more perspective, here's an interesting review from a few years back on the A2's ride and handling qualities.. worth reading: http://www.vehicledynamicsinternational.com/driving_review.php?id=214

leehallum said:

Hi All,

I have had my 2003 1.6 fsi sport for just over 3 months now, and its great, I have done a few minor fixes on it and its running really well. but im starting to think about how I can improve the ride, as im finding it a bit on the harsh side.

I have the standard 17" sport alloys and as far as I can tell the rest of the suspension etc is standard...

Initial thoughts are to:

Change the wheels to 16" to get a more standard tyre (as the current ones are low profile)
Upgrade the springs and or shock absorbers
Limit my speed to about 30mph and just take far longer to get anywhere : )

Has anyone managed to improve the ride of their FSI? im open to all options and suggestions. I don't want to spend a huge amount of money, but would like to make the ride a little smoother if I can.


Thanks

Click to expand...

Hi there,
I am considering changing to 17" sport wheels as I currently have 16" on my 1.6fsi SE, having never driven a sport with the stiffer suspension it would be nice to see the difference, mine is not used on a daily basis so I could sacrifice the odd crashy ride at the weekend, I have the standard SE softer suspension!
It's interesting to hear people's different views, but looks wise 17's and above suit the car so much better imo!
Good luck in your choice, perhaps there's a trade to be done lol!
Here's a pic for your reference!
Cheers Jeff

I have just purchased a set of 17's for mine but I'm also having lower front springs fitted (non SE)

The 17" wheels do look good Jeff. Our 16" SE,s are a good compromise between a reasonably comfy ride and good handling capabilities. I,m going in the opposite direction and had my 15" pepperpots refurbished with a view to putting them on for winter. I,m going to put 185/60/R15,s on them so it would be interesting to compare your thoughts on the 17,s.
Ta
Dave

Special edition said:

The 17" wheels do look good Jeff. Our 16" SE,s are a good compromise between a reasonably comfy ride and good handling capabilities. I,m going in the opposite direction and had my 15" pepperpots refurbished with a view to putting them on for winter. I,m going to put 185/60/R15,s on them so it would be interesting to compare your thoughts on the 17,s.
Ta
Dave

Click to expand...

Hi Dave,
Contrary to what I said about 17's and above looking better I've always liked the pepperpots, imagine if they'd arranged them into a 17 or 18" rim, would look superb!
A bit like the 'I 3's with their 20s they just look right for the car!
Cheers Jeff

I agree - pepperpots just sort of look "right" on the A2. I have seen guys on the wheeler dealer programme "extend" wheels by welding on an extra band of width (think it was the split screen VW van episode). It would probably be very expensive and have to be done professionally because of the safety issues. Now you,ve got me thinking ............

Special edition said:

I agree - pepperpots just sort of look "right" on the A2. I have seen guys on the wheeler dealer programme "extend" wheels (think it was the split screen VW van episode). It would probably be very expensive and have to be done professionally because of the safety issues. Now you,ve got me thinking ............

Click to expand...

Yes, it was the VW split screen episode.

Banded wheels seem to have flipped from being illegal at one stage and now legal again. But the cost is not too bad, I am not sure I would trust the wheels though, but I am sure the professionals know what they are doing.

Even though I am (obviously) a fan of the biggest wheels for the A2, it is far more important to have ones that look right.

a set of 15" wheels that really look well are far better than a set of 18s that don't suit the car.

Photoshopping the image of wheels before buying is the best you can do, but in the flesh they sometimes don't look right.

So I am all for wheels that look right, whatever the size, the right set of wheel really set the car off and as you can see from the picture that Jeff posted above, the standard 16" SE alloys when in good condition look superb too!

Steve B

Birchall said:

Yes, it was the VW split screen episode.

Banded wheels seem to have flipped from being illegal at one stage and now legal again. But the cost is not too bad, I am not sure I would trust the wheels though, but I am sure the professionals know what they are doing.

Even though I am (obviously) a fan of the biggest wheels for the A2, it is far more important to have ones that look right.

a set of 15" wheels that really look well are far better than a set of 18s that don't suit the car.

Photoshopping the image of wheels before buying is the best you can do, but in the flesh they sometimes don't look right.

So I am all for wheels that look right, whatever the size, the right set of wheel really set the car off and as you can see from the picture that Jeff posted above, the standard 16" SE alloys when in good condition look superb too!

Steve B

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Thanks for your kind words Steve!
Care to swap your 18's for my 16's lol

Special edition said:

I agree - pepperpots just sort of look "right" on the A2. I have seen guys on the wheeler dealer programme "extend" wheels by welding on an extra band of width (think it was the split screen VW van episode). It would probably be very expensive and have to be done professionally because of the safety issues. Now you,ve got me thinking ............

Click to expand...

If I see a welders glow coming from oop north this weekend I know what your up to Dave lol!

Yes, if you do opt for this I hope it will be "Weld done", that "Seams" wheely important.
(I suppose that is stretching it a bit?)

Steve B

Birchall said:

Yes, if you do opt for this I hope it will be "Weld done", that "Seams" wheely important.
(I suppose that is stretching it a bit?)

Steve B

Click to expand...

I can't follow that haha!

I'd actually suggest something a little more radical. I believe it is Lotus who like their cars to "breathe" with the road, and that's only really possible with very controlled dampers but soft springs. Combined with light unsprung mass, you win all ways around because of the lower consumption and better roadholding, not to mention decent comfort without the body movements of insufficient damping.

Personally, I have had FSDs for a while and am now moving to Bilstein B8s with original Eibach springs. I'm replacing the rear ones with Fabia (6Y) ones to keep the car's rear end higher than the front (though there are many other ways to do this). I haven't managed to get the anti-roll bars on yet, but they'll be going on soon, along with new bushes for the rear axle, dogbone and various other bits. No time since Easter

I've been running 15" wheels for several years now and can't really fault them except optically. Which isn't a good enough reason. They're 15x7s with 195/50R15 rubber and that means minimal tyre give at any point.
We test drove a different car earlier today and it was really clear just how much the comfort on that car was from the massive sidewalls - 215/60R17s - because the suspension itself was really quite firm. The difference in my car just from changing winter and summer tyres is enormous. The 185/60R15s feel like balloons compared to the summer rubber.

Anyway. There are lots of ways around the slightly wooden ride. Worn dampers may also be part of it.

- Bret

There was a set of suggested setups over on the German forums. If I remember correctly, it reads something like B4 + Spidan for "comfort", B6 + Spidan for "sporty comfort" (less roll), B8+K&W 50/30 for a 30mm drop and decent body control. Each paired with the lightest wheels possible (Motec Nitro, Team Dynamics, ASA, Rota, Pepperpots) with an appropriate width of tyre for the rim. Smaller rim / tyre combos tend to weigh less.

Then: add antiroll bar at the rear, replace the front one. Replace wishbone bushes, control arm ends and droplinks (Meyle HD!), as they're probably broken. Replace upper strut mounts with the stronger ones from teh VW camp - 6Q0 412 331 B - , replace bolts where they are stretched (where the torque is xNm + y degrees).... lots to do to make it feel brand new.

- Bret