From Cooper S to A2 - first few days

[rspecial]

Hi all,

well we picked up our nice shiny new A2 on Friday and I do absolutely love the car. The service at the Audi dealer was superb, really friendly and helpfull. There was only one slight problem at delivery - a small dint in the rear aluminium trim which the dealer immediately offered to change.

The car is totally rattle free and feels really refined. Our first trip was to Tescos (as I believe is traditional for A2's ). This was followed by two trips to the local garden centre where the huge luggage space provded most usefull as the whole car was filled with planting troughs and plants ! The only dissapointment was after folding the rear seats forward we couldn't get one of them to latch back upright. Quick trip to the dealer revealed a dodgy spring catch under the seat - to be replaced this week. I've also just noticed a small scuff mark on the black trim between the front and rear windows on the driver side, but I may be getting overly fussy. Is this a plastic trim or painted metal ?

This weekend the car had a nice 300 mile round trip to Suffolk, and despite the bad weather was really nice and comfy. Really impressive for a small car, and far far better than the VW Polo we were considering as an alternative.

Compared to the Mini, the Audi build quality seem streets ahead. The car feels so much better to be inside - even silly things like the indicator stalks feel so much more solid and long lasting. I dont know if anyone read the AutoExpress survey results, but the A2 was around 40th for reliability out of 100 which isnt great for an Audi, however this compared to around 60th for the Mini which is really bad for a BMW. The A2 actually came 8th out of 100 for overall owner satisfaction .

Running in is a pain, but even so the car seems pretty nippy. The 1.6 FSI is definately less refined than conventional petrol engines, but the fuel economy should more than make up for it (so far 39 mpg, but that is a mixture of short runs mixed with one long run at 85 mph).

Overall we are really happy with the A2, and totally sure that ditching the Mini for the A2 was a good move all round !

- Alex


A2 1.6 FSE SE

 

[Harps]

Delighted to hear that there are at least a few happy A2 owners.

I agree that the car is well built for a "variable compact" (Audi's description - not mine!) - but then you have paid a 30% premium for this over a Polo. So it should be.

I think a lot of the reliability problems came in the early days - people generally have fewer comlaints over more recent cars. Perhaps Audi should have got it right first time.

As you mention, if you pick up a trouble-free example, I think most people on this forum would agree that the overall A2 package is very satisfying - and still very exclusive.

 

[runboy]

Shame I've now had two dud A2's. Sods law I think they call it.

Or lucky if you get a fault free one.

I'm off to Skoda.

Steve - 2003 1.4SE petrol, Silver, black/black interior

 

[John Reynolds]

While running-in my FSI I'm enjoying driving gently and getting the mpg readout as high as possible. I look forward to hearing more of the sporty sounds from the engine - which I don't find particularly "unrefined" - as things progress.

JR

A2 1.6 FSI, Cobalt blue, OpenSky, etc.

 

[Harps]

Skoda for Runboy, VWs for Royfox and JD and someone was asking about Seats. Why is it when people are fed up with their A2s, they immediately move onto another VAG car. In JD's case, he even managed to find a dealer closely related to his favourite Audi dealer.

 

[Gav]

With all these issues with the A2 it seems less likely that I'll go for one next year - I'm not sure I can afford new, finding a nearly new with the spec I want could be hard, and if it has problems...

Since I haven't had a VAG car already then perhaps It's probably easier to stay away completly. I can understand paying a small premium for an A2, but compared to Golf's and Leon's I think it's well priced, so it's more likely an A2 than either of those... But my choice may be swayed away for good back to the Fiat Stilo - I've had Stilo's as hire cars and compared to my current Punto (which I still really like) they are well put together and sure-footed. And the Abarth pretty much has as standard all the extras for an A2... So more for less money, and possibly an even rarer car (not as eye-catchingly different), result: very tempting...

 

[Harps]

You'd better hope that Fiat are still around to support it.

As I've said elsewhere, if you can find a good dealer, that is very important. But the A2 is not really in the same market as the Stilo. If you are considering buying a Stilo, then perhaps you should also look at the likes of the Focus, 307, Corolla, new Megane as well as the Golf.

The reviews I've read for the Stilo suggest that it is a fairly good car overall and that it does most things well - but nothing exceptionally well. As for trusting a Fiat over a Corolla - it's not even close - although both seem to have cloned their looks from the A3.

 

[John Disdale]

Harps,

Don’t worry, I often wonder whether I have jumped out of the frying pan into the fire. In terms of my VW dealership I never had the wisdom to ask if the Managing Director was in any way related to anyone selling Audi’s. As it is I do understand that my VW MD is a genuine “hands on” individual who can be spoken to at any time of the day, so I remain highly hopeful that the “like father like son” does not apply. For certain I am not going to make the same daft mistake which I made with my Audi dealer – in claiming that their service is great, because until they are put to the “acid test” I now appreciate its impossible to accurately judge.

In talking of VW Golf’s it is quite apparent (from visit to other forums) that they likewise are not without their problems, and according to a recent magazine survey VW dealers have a very poor reputation. That said apart from the VAG link I guess the facts are that many Audi’s and VW’s use the same parts, and by example this no doubt contributed to the many “blown” turbos that occurred last year. On the bright side (so I keep telling myself) there are an awful lot of TDI Golf’s being sold worldwide, so even a dozen complaints represents a very small percentage, however the hope is not to be part of the small percentage.

What I will repeat is that earlier on many of us on this forum fairly believed that it was only the 2000 and early 2001 A2 models that were sometimes problematic, however from what I have absorbed of late the theory holds no water when todays brand new cars still have some problems – all of which gets back to the poor inconsistency during production.

Regards
John Disdale

 

[jmckie1]

Gav, personally I wouldn't go near Fiat's. I remember the Bravo and Brava getting rave reviews when they came out and I love the look of them. However now they have proven to be very unreliable and not much fun to own. I have no reason to think the new Stilo (which I also love the look of) will be any different. However you do have experience with Fiat and have liked it so it makes sense to stick with what you know works.

To answer Harps he is totally correct that many of us (including me - now a Seat Leon owner) are a bit daft in moving from one VAG group to another when we have issues with them. I must admit in my case it was the offer of a good deal from a dealer that I had been given good words about for a car that I liked and that had a bit of exclusivety compared to it's rivals. I had been considering the Focus and the Astra aswell.

Cheers,

Jamie

 

[Gav]

Sorry for a long post. I just want to explain a few things - I'm not digging at anyone!

quote:Originally posted by Harps

You'd better hope that Fiat are still around to support it.

If I was to either get a new Fiat or keep my existing Punto I would expect them to be around. I know Fiat are in big problems, and companies go bust. If they don't get their act together then General Motors will buy the remaining 80% in 2004-5 for a tidy price and merge the brands. My local Fiat dealer is owned by the same people as my local Vauxhall dealer (who my parents have brought several new cars from), and they won't dissapear from my vicinity. They've done a lot to keep my custom already! (They opened the Fiat dealer a few months after I got the Punto after an Astra)

quote:
...But the A2 is not really in the same market as the Stilo. If you are considering buying a Stilo, then perhaps you should also look at the likes of the Focus, 307, Corolla, new Megane as well as the Golf.

The A2 is a pretty unique car. Only real competition in my eyes is the A-class. I'm happy with the room in my Punto, so I could stick with that size car for now, or get something with more boot space, more passenger space and more toys to last longer. Better build quality and safety are considerations as well as fuel economy and lifetime costs... At the end of the day you either like a car or don't, oppinions change. I like A2's, Punto's Stilo's. I've driven a 307 and it's very nice, I wouldn't mind one. I look at Golf prices and don't like them, although they're nice cars (Mmmm PD130). Focus' may be good but are so common, Megane's not my styling and I've never really been a fan of Japanese cars (partly due to the seemingly yearly updates to lights and so on). I could change my thinking completly and go with a used Saab convertable!

quote:
The reviews I've read for the Stilo suggest that it is a fairly good car overall and that it does most things well - but nothing exceptionally well. As for trusting a Fiat over a Corolla - it's not even close - although both seem to have cloned their looks from the A3.

When driving a Stilo in a rainshower it felt very stable. Where I'd be sliding round at slower speeds in my Punto it was sure-footed. Things sounded right and felt right too. I marvelled at my Punto when I got it 18 months ago after my 7 year old Astra was written off. Ideally I'd like to keep the next car I buy for many years, so it needs to be able to do many things. My Fiat experience has meant after 12000 and 24000 miles I've had a day for servicing each. That's it. It hasn't let me down once. The ownership experience has been good - I still look round for a glance after parking it... And I've averaged over 50mpg from a petrol engine.

quote:Originally posted by jmckie1

Personally I wouldn't go near Fiat's. I remember the Bravo and Brava getting rave reviews when they came out and I love the look of them. However now they have proven to be very unreliable and not much fun to own. I have no reason to think the new Stilo (which I also love the look of) will be any different. However you do have experience with Fiat and have liked it so it makes sense to stick with what you know works.

And this forum is proof that A2's aren't the most reliable or well built cars. My Fiat has not been unreliable... Fiat are having to raise thier game to stay in business. I have a list of things I want in a new car and Fiat can provide them (Name me another manufacturer who has a standard subwoofer on a mid spec small car). The Stilo may not be class leading, but to me it's a very good car. And I'd prefer to drive something other than a Focus, Golf, or Corollla. Works for me - maybe Audi would, which is why I'm here! I still have lots of time to decide and my visit to the Motorshow is only a few weeks away!

One poor VAG experience and I'd be looking elsewhere! Maybe those contemplating leaving Audi should look outside VAG...

 

[Kaine]

Hi Gav,

Since my company is eligable for Fiat/Alfa car discount, many many people I work with (including myself) have been through various Fiats and Alfa's.

My list
98 Fiat Coupe 20V
98 Fiat Punto 1.2
99 Fiat Bravo HGT 20V

Of course you can only take my word for this, however I just wanted to let you know that the majority of people will never buy one again. (me included). At least with AUDI, you do get a good buying experience - Fiat cant even get that right most of the time.

My advice, for what its worth - buy Japanese, i.e. made in Japan only. I went for the A2 purely on looks and economy. My next choice would have been a Lexus IS200.

Kaine

 

[John Disdale]

Most surveys that I seem to come across always end up conveying that Japanese cars are best for reliability, with the dealer offering the best of services. As to Lexus, well yes – Toyota.

 

[Kaine]

JD,

Observation only, however isn't it strange how if someone says Lexus, then automatically everyone thinks Toyota, however if we say Seat, Skoda, etc, we dont automatically think VW.

Kaine

 

[STEVO]

My car dealer is an indepentent importer of cars mainly from Europe. He sells / supplies any make of car .He is selling at least 50 cars per week. He has told me that when he sells a Japenese car he never sees it again but with any other make they are always coming back re faults etc

 

[Kaine]

Based on my experience, it tends to come down to production location also. If I bought a Japanese car, I would tend to buy one actually produced in Japan. I am aware that many European manufactured Japanese cars (i.e. Honda Civic, Toyota Avensis) have started to see an increase in quality problems over the last few years. During visits to Japan, I could clearly recognise that the assembly staff at all tiers of manufacturing actually still take pride in there work (resembling the UK many years ago), and being proud of the cars they produce. In Europe, the closest we have to this is in Germany. As the production staff are paid very well in Germany, the tend to take responsibility for what they are producing, and hence we can see generally better quality cars (BMW, Merc, AUDI).

Kaine

 

[Rob Earl]

Going back to the Fiat train of thought, I'd just like to add my experiences on the matter.

I've only ever bought 2 cars brand new, one a Fiat Punto 1.8 which has many faults with build quality. As for customer service, I've tried 2 different dealers and both were as much use as chocolate teapots. Warranties are there to help sell the cars, not for help if a fault arises. This has ensured that my view of Fiat is blighted and I would never buy another car from them.
I recently found a forum for the mk2 punto and my first few posts were all in the negative, asking questions about faults and generally sounding off. Is this a reflection of forums in general? A percentage of the members have seeked out a specific site to gain insights into their troublesome cars and manufacturers.

The second car bought new is the A2. We've only had this a fortnight now and so far - touch wood - it all seems as it should. Our first test of the fabled aftersales service will come soon when I enquire about the wrong wipers being fitted (different thread). I'm an optimist that Audi will do better than Fiat but time will tell.


1.4SE petrol in Merlot Red, Biege interior, 16" 5 spoke alloys, DIS, Open Sky, Elec rear windows.

 

[tino]

Sounds like a very touchy subject ... for what it's worth never say never. If you've had a bad experience a few years ago with any manufacturer, then I would say give their new cars ago, have a few test drives and compare. You may be surprised. Things move on pretty quickly in the automotive industry, and a car that's just three or four years old can now seem hopelessly of date. At the end of the day it depends on your priorities ... a Toyota Corrola might be reliable, but style/image factor is zero, whereas an A2 or Stilo have a bit more flair. And those things do count for most people. I had a Fiat Coupe, and currently have a Fiat Barchetta as well as my A2. Both cars have been totally reliable. Yes they have their niggles ... I am subscribed to the Fiat Barchetta forum, and the list of 'charms' that owners gripe about is not too dissimilar to this forum (car faults, dealers etc. etc.).

I recently chose an A2 over a Fiat Stilo and Alfa 147. I ruled out the 147 on cost (too pricey but gorgeous .. plus there will be a freshening next year), and the Stilo on initial depreciation (but cheaper to buy). However both were very good cars. The ex-demo A2 I eventually bought is cheap enough to run for me to be able to keep the Barchetta which I love to bits.



Tino
Dolphin Grey 1.4 SE

 

[Gav]

quote:Originally posted by Kaine

...
Of course you can only take my word for this, however I just wanted to let you know that the majority of people will never buy one again. (me included). At least with AUDI, you do get a good buying experience - Fiat cant even get that right most of the time...

Maybe that's where I went wrong - I got my Punto used - 9 months old with 10k on the clock for 4k less than a new one... I'm certainly swaying to buying nearly new again. So finding an A2 in the colour I want (currently I like the mid grey - not sure on the name), with DIS, Air-Con, Open Sky, Bose, CD... may be hard. I could save money initially and buy a standard Stilo Abarth which has all the <s>toys</s> extras, or spend more on a new Stilo JTD (than a new Abarth!) to get the <s>toys</s> extra's I want. It's similar with another make of car - I want good economy and luxury but not earth shattering performace.

I like the A2, and think that a nearly new one can more easily be checked for faults before parting with any cash (although I brought my Punto almost blind). Perhaps this is the best way to buy - but not everyone can do it from a statistical viewpoint. If I were to get a new A2 and for example it didn't give the mpg I expect, then I would certainly complain - I drive ~250 miles a week, so filling up every fortnight is nice - I'd rather not have to fill every 10 days again. Those are more my kind of concerns with an A2, but also the dealer support for fixing small issues (service flap anyone).

tino: Do you recomend Barchetta's? It's another option for me to keep my Punto and get one as well - bit more fun in my life etc... Especially since I have a good friend with an MX5 who I could do with out-doing). Aren't Barchetta's based on the original Punto? Good to drive? I know they're LHD only, which after 6 months of continental motoring in a RHD car (I'm coming home tomorrow ) I'm not worried about.

 

[John Disdale]

Gav,

If you purchase a petrol A2 and cover 250 miles each week you will need to fill up the tank probably before the week is over, so forget about every 14 days.

Regards
John Disdale

 

[Phil]

As a company car driver I tend to suffer minor faults till service time as they only slightly niggle.

My list of new cars and faults before 20000 miles is

Ford Focus(1) No faults
Ford Focus(2) No Faults
Honda Accord Glove box lock broke. CD player broke(Panasonic)
Toyota Avensis (Only to 7000 miles) Loud dashboard rattle
Audi A2 Drivers seat squeak
Rear passenger seat squeak
Drivers seatbelt reel gone slack

From this analysis ford are the winner with Audi last and Japanese inbetween, the direct opposite of expectation.

I think all new cars cope pretty well to 3yrs 60000 miles it is after that that I would expect the differences to show when I would hope the Audi would surpass the others.

Phil