Which engine oil for 1.4 TDI

[Guest 4123]

anything from the very best, most expensive, fully synthetic to a cheap 10/40 semi will do the job.

No, no, no! PDs require a specific grade of oil because of the load placed on the camshafts by the injectors. If you don't believe me, remove your camshaft and look at the lower shells at about 200k miles - even with the correct oil!

RAB

 

[Little Dog]

No, no, no! PDs require a specific grade of oil because of the load placed on the camshafts by the injectors. If you don't believe me, remove your camshaft and look at the lower shells at about 200k miles - even with the correct oil!

RAB

I may well be doing that this year, but if the oil meets relevant VAG standards where is the issue?
Does your comment support my belief that anything / 30 is not great for a PD engine?

 

[mikec]

I think that 'special' (VW 505.01) oils were specced for the PD engines, back in the day, with extreme pressure additives for PD injector to camshaft interface, or at any rate, because of something to do with the PD injectors.
A few years ago I asked an Audi dealer and they told me that VW 504.00/507.00 is OK. I guess oil technology has progressed a lot since PD engines were introduced?
For what it's worth, I use 'Fuchs Titan GT1 5W-40 XTL' in my 2002 AMF engine, which is 505.01. I've used Castrol 504.00/507.00, but as the Fuchs is much less expensive where I am, and as this is an old engine (blow-by? fuel dilution?), I thought changing more often might be better than using a newer spec oil. It might also help the engine warm up faster (I can't tell though). The older oil probably has more SAPS, perhaps ever so slightly higher HTHS, at least to start. I hope it doesn't make the engine dirtier!
In any case, I wouldn't use anything other than 505.01 or the newer 504.00/507.00. As long as the oil has one of those specs, I think you can choose whatever grade you think is best. For 505.01 you'll only probably find 5W-40, or maybe 5W-30 somewhere, and for 504.00/507.00 only 5W-30 and 0W-30.
I think Shell's current oils are also good, and inexpensive. Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 seems like the go-to oil for many many (even performance) cars, Mercedes and the like. I wouldn't use it in a PD TDI though (no 505.01 or 504.00/507.00).
Hope this helps!

 

[spike]

Dj_efk posted this excellent oil spec comparison tool from Lubrizol, who incidentally supply the oil additive packages to many of the major manufacturers - https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Per this post, original spec for A2 oil was 0w-30 - https://www.a2oc.net/community/index.php?threads/service-period.898/post-11784
Interesting to note Castrol had run a test engine for 150,000 miles without an oil change

Cheers Spike

 

[Guest 4123]

I may well be doing that this year, but if the oil meets relevant VAG standards where is the issue?
Does your comment support my belief that anything / 30 is not great for a PD engine?

I don't think that you'll find anything 10/40 that meets the required specs. No, on what do you base your theory?

RAB

 

[mikec]

Dj_efk posted this excellent oil spec comparison tool from Lubrizol, who incidentally supply the oil additive packages to many of the major manufacturers - https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

I use that too. It's nice. I use it mostly to find minimum HTHS of various oils. But they note that you can't compare across various industry specs (e.g. PSA to VW), although I do do it sometimes, like ACEA to API.

The Castrol SLX LL2 in that post you linked to, was a 506.01? (505.01 for 15k km/1yr fixed , or 506.01 for 30k km/2yr variable I think it was originally)

I, as part of the public, definitely would not accept 150,000 miles (or km!). And I think later on (the post is from 2003), especially BMW folks, kept complaning about how these long intervals were ruining engines. But who knows. Simiar mentality with Peugeot, people here opting for 5W-40 in the Prince BMW/Peugeot engines, chalking up the 5W-30 and long life claims to eco-marketing. There definitely was an eco push back then, hybrids, 0W-20 HTHS 2.6 that wasn't specced by VW until only a few years ago. Who knows. *shrug*
The post says the Castrol test was just that, so probably done in controlled conditions, but what about applicability to real life driving and wear and tear? But hey, Castrol/VW, brothers in arms (at least back then), big marketing for Castrol probably too, and with a 150,000 mi claim! wow! I take it with a big grain of salt. Was the long life really quoted for up to 30,000 MILES in the UK? I think it was up to 30,000 km in Europe?

Does anyone know if Audi/VAG allows any of the very new specs to be used in the PD TDI engines? 508.88/509.99, 511.00, just noticed them on the Lubrizol page. All have a min. HTHS of 3.5.
Maybe the 511.00 is for cars with particulate filters in ultra low sulphur fuel areas, 508.88/509.99 for same in areas with higher sulphur content fuel? (noticed low and high TBN minimums, respectively). Just guessing. Maybe I'll give the Audi dealer a call again, though I'll probably stick with old-school 5W-40 505.01 anyway.

 

[mikec]

Regarding 30 vs 40, will a newer spec 30 (say 504/507) shear/wear out faster than a 505.01 40? Especially on an old beaten up engine?

Oh, also, the original Castrol SLX LL2 might have been actually fully synethic (to the German legal meaning of the word)?, as opposed to a mix of Group III+/PAO, or whatever, that newer LL oils probably have? I think I remember Mobil 1 5W-50 being touted as amazing (real fully sysnthetic?) about 20 years ago, recommended by Porsche for their cars even?, but then people said they changed the formulation, and it wasn't as great. *shrug*

 

[steve_c]

Does anyone know if Audi/VAG allows any of the very new specs to be used in the PD TDI engines? 508.88/509.99, 511.00, just noticed them on the Lubrizol page. All have a min. HTHS of 3.5.
Maybe the 511.00 is for cars with particulate filters in ultra low sulphur fuel areas, 508.88/509.99 for same in areas with higher sulphur content fuel? (noticed low and high TBN minimums, respectively).

No backward compatibility, apparently:

Volkswagen Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org

www.oilspecifications.org

 

[mikec]

No backward compatibility, apparently:

Volkswagen Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org

www.oilspecifications.org

That lists the HTHS min. 2.6, VW508.00/509.00 (0W-20 only?). No mention of the newest 508.88/509.99 or 511.00.
511.00 looks like a very low SAPS, like ACEA C2, PSA B71-2312. The 508.88/509.99, maybe an update to 504.00/507.00 in 5W-40? https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/downloadStaticFile/volkswagen/files/oil/step_50888_50999.pdf (5W-40)
https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/downloadStaticFile/volkswagen/files/oil/step_51100.pdf (5W-40 and 0W-40)
Anyway, starting to speculate a bit too much perhaps.

Interesting, 511.00 approved, 505.01 recommended: https://www.fuchs.com/pl/en/product/product/145359-titan-gt1-flex-3-sae-5w-40/
~40% more expensive than the 505.01 Fuchs Titan GT1 XTL, per litre. I tried finding it on the Fuchs' UK page, but couldn't!

 

[Little Dog]

I don't think that you'll find anything 10/40 that meets the required specs. No, on what do you base your theory?

RAB

Quantum Synta 10/40 is what Audi put in my car once, I think it is 505.00. It wasn't great, became thick and black very quickly, so I changed it for Mobil 1.
I had a preference for 5/40 because I've had nothing but trouble with 5/30 with other cars and also because of the way the A2 was driven, hard on motorways. I felt 5/40 gave better protection particularly in summer temperatures. Cam bearing wear must be due to metal to metal contact, presumably at start up. I feel 5/40 gives better protection on hot starts?

 

[Guest 4123]

Cam bearing wear must be due to metal to metal contact, presumably at start up. I feel 5/40 gives better protection on hot starts?

If cam bearing wear was only due to metal-to-metal at start-up, wouldn't that be the case for all bearings, not just the cam bearings. More telling, it was only the lower bearings that were worn!

RAB

 

[Little Dog]

Dj_efk posted this excellent oil spec comparison tool from Lubrizol, who incidentally supply the oil additive packages to many of the major manufacturers - https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Per this post, original spec for A2 oil was 0w-30 - https://www.a2oc.net/community/index.php?threads/service-period.898/post-11784
Interesting to note Castrol had run a test engine for 150,000 miles without an oil change

Cheers Spike

Thanks fort putting me right with the 0w 30. Must have been busy with other things when the car was new; never spotted that one.

 

[dj_efk]

Quantum Synta 10/40 is what Audi put in my car once, I think it is 505.00. It wasn't great, became thick and black very quickly, so I changed it for Mobil 1.
I had a preference for 5/40 because I've had nothing but trouble with 5/30 with other cars and also because of the way the A2 was driven, hard on motorways. I felt 5/40 gave better protection particularly in summer temperatures. Cam bearing wear must be due to metal to metal contact, presumably at start up. I feel 5/40 gives better protection on hot starts?

Hi Phil,

Obviously do what you wish, however this is a common misconception about engine oils - you can have a 5/30 that gives superior wear protection than a 5/40 - viscosity has no bearing on how good an oil is at preventing wear.

 

[PlasticMac]

Everyone has their own views on oil and what's best to use and as we all use our cars differently then it makes perfect sense that their may be different grades or weights of oil that will be more suitable for some and not others but I have to say that I have heard nothing good about the Euro Car Parts Triple X product you mention and it doesn't even meet the 507 specification, only 505.

Again it's up to us as individuals what oil we choose to put in our cars, just like as human beings what food we choose to put in our bodies but as you say you would never use what l use, I personally wouldn't put the oil you use in any of my cars but it's probably absolutely fine, I just don't see the point in taking the risk.

Oil and tyres are the two items I will never use anything other than what I believe to be the best as I feel they are (along with brakes) the most important serviceable items on a car.

I also think for a main Audi dealer to offer to use a cut price lower quality semi synthetic oil on a service because it's out of warranty is absolutely disgraceful ?

Agree 100%, just add fuel to your "only the best will do" list.
Mac.

 

[Little Dog]

I’m sticking with 5W-40 but spotted this at my local Audi dealer. A pallet of longlife 4; grade 0W-20, now that is scary.

 

[technoman52]

I’m sticking with 5W-40 but spotted this at my local Audi dealer. A pallet of longlife 4; grade 0W-20, now that is scary.

I still recommend 5w-40. The '40' is higher viscosity level so good for old high mileage engines where it would give better protection and least fricktion to the pistons, and good running + mileage. This is what I used.
0-20 is good for newer cars when engines are like new .

Also it is important to note that 1.4 TDI are AMF PD, pump duse engines. They require standard VW 505.01 which is Quantum 5w-40, Tripple QX 5w-40, Castrol Edge 5w-40, Motul 5w-40.

 

[steve_c]

I still recommend 5w-40. The '40' is higher viscosity level so good for old high mileage engines where it would give better protection and least fricktion to the pistons, and good running + mileage. This is what I used.
0-20 is good for newer cars when engines are like new .

Also it is important to note that 1.4 TDI are AMF PD, pump duse engines. They require standard VW 505.01 which is Quantum 5w-40, Tripple QX 5w-40, Castrol Edge 5w-40, Motul 5w-40.

For many years now, the correct VAG oil specifications for the Audi A2 has been (and remains) 504.00 / 507.00. VAG 505.01 is an outdated spec oil that is no longer supported for use in any VAG engines, and as a consequence is being heavily discounted at the moment.

Quantum Longlife 4 is a specialist oil with no backward compatibility, and should only be used with engines for which it is actually specified.

 

[greywolfhound]

From the year dot of ist Audi a2 ownership many moons ago ...I’ve used Castrol edge 5 -30 inc genuine oil filter ..done every year at mot time no matter what the milage ...I wish in layman’s terms someone can explain why this is not a good idea and That 5 40 is the better option ...?? we do very little motorway driving it’s mainly up to 30 mile trips or even shorter journeys with the odd long trip thrown in ..

 

[Howey]

I previously had a passat if you head to ukpassats there's an extensive thread on engine oil in the B5/B5.5 section (same era as A2 albeit with the 1.9 4cyl) a guy who seems to be an oil guru. The best oil is reported as vw507.00 but our cars were built for vw505.01 so I don't think you can go wrong with either tbh

 

[greywolfhound]

I previously had a passat if you head to ukpassats there's an extensive thread on engine oil in the B5/B5.5 section (same era as A2 albeit with the 1.9 4cyl) a guy who seems to be an oil guru. The best oil is reported as vw507.00 but our cars were built for vw505.01 so I don't think you can go wrong with either tbh

Well the 507 spec is the Castrol edge 5 -30 ...so are some on here saying that the 505.01 should be used instead ?..I was always under the impression that the A2 tdi away basically the same block as the 1.9 of that era with one Cylinder chopped off hence the great longevity in these units ..?