Wont start. Fuel pump/relay

That's a bummer. Still, seems safe to assume fuel is available, so next step is to find out how far along the system it is getting.
I'm not a diesel guru but even your before doesn't look too bad to me especially if it's not been out before.
Mac.
Thanks Mac, Next fuel filter 🤔 don't know whether to wait for a deproman drain screw or have a go anyway as i have nothing to lose. Need a lot of molegrips and a coffee break...why is the fuel filter where it is ????? 🙄.. have looked all around the tandem pump also ... Hopefully in the right place and cannot see any significant oil, diesel leaks ...
 
Morning Neil,

That’s a nice clean looking fuel sender Sir. Was the cleaning fluid easily passing through where the fuel lines connect. If so then suggest the next step of fuel filter.

As the engine run on an easy start product then this suggests that the injector loom is fine as the easy start product ignited. I’m no expert in this particular area but the only thing you seem to be missing in the chamber is fuel. Fingers crossed the filter swap allows the fuel to reach the engine.

Kind regards,

Tom
Hi Tom , thanks, when you say cleaning fluid passing through I only flushed through with brake cleaner .. should I have forced air tight connection some how to see it cycle if that makes sense?
 
Hi Tom , thanks, when you say cleaning fluid passing through I only flushed through with brake cleaner .. should I have forced air tight connection some how to see it cycle if that makes sense?
Hi Neil,

No need for an air tight connection. Just asking if you squirted the brake cleaner down the tubes that the fuel hoses connect to on to - did the brake cleaner pass through and come out the bottom or did you just clean the exterior of the assembly.

Hope that makes sense.

If so then the fuel filter should resolve this issue if the area below the tandem pump is dry. I’m quite sure I never personally changed the fuel filter during my ownership. Certain that I would t have paid someone to do it either as it’s well within my ability to do so. It might have been on there for a while.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
Hi Neil,

No need for an air tight connection. Just asking if you squirted the brake cleaner down the inlets that the fuel hoses connect to - did the brake cleaner pass through and come out the bottom or did you just clean the exterior of the assembly.

Hope that makes sense.

If so then the fuel filter should resolve this issue if the area below the tandem pump is dry. I’m quite sure I never personally changed the fuel filter during my ownership. Certain that I would t have paid someone to do it either as it’s well within my ability to do so. It might have been on there for a while.

Kind regards,

Tom
Yes squirted brake cleaner into the tubes the the hose connect to, yes did pass through but not probably at the rate it was squirted in. I presume it isnt just a straight through or maybe there is a blockage or some sorts ?

Yeah i have had a crawl underneath and looks like I have found housing and can now see i have what I presume and should have checked myself the wrong filter. I got it from Halfords yesterday. I have a new metal can , and I presume I just need a paper insert. Back to return and get right part... the actual housing is missing the shield, presume fallen off , can see the exhaust heat shield which was an advisory last year is insecure... and what looks like the drain screw is very rusty... yeah hoping if it hasnt been changed for sometime , a change will resolve 🙏 , looks simple to do apart from the drain screw issue and also keeping the lines airtight.
 
The fuel filter housing ...
Screenshot_20240224-113737.png
 
Hi Neil,

Yes your BHC fuel filter is the paper element type and. It the earlier generation metal canister. The parts person at Halfords should have been able to understand this from checking online in conjunction with the year of production.

Your muck will change soon enough I’m sure Sir.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
If you have a crows foot spanner you could you use that to remove the bottom off the filter housing? That would mean you don't have to disturb that drain screw.

Although thinking about the screw in cap that goes on the bottom of the filter housing is usually quite tight so you may need to use a socket after all
 
If you have a crows foot spanner you could you use that to remove the bottom off the filter housing? That would mean you don't have to disturb that drain screw.

Although thinking about the screw in cap that goes on the bottom of the filter housing is usually quite tight so you may need to use a socket after all
Hi thanks , does this mean the bottom cover and the drain screw would be removed as one ? so the drain screw only goes into the cover and not the base of the filter insert?
 
No one has the filter in stock, refund from Halfords :( Have to order it - ECP, GSF earliest Monday delivery
Hi Neil,

Yes your BHC fuel filter is the paper element type and. It the earlier generation metal canister. The parts person at Halfords should have been able to understand this from checking online in conjunction with the year of production.

Your muck will change soon enough I’m sure Sir.

Kind regards,

Tom
Looks like I have hit a brick wall for the remainder of the weekend; Cant get the correct filter until Monday at earliest, probably why I was given what I was. All the usual places dont have in stock. :( Anyway ordered and will have to wait until Monday to progress. Thanks everyone for the advice and support so far. Would this fit, seems to be listed on GSF as fitment 1.4 TDI , one in stock delivery tomorrow maybe worth me trying
1708778494017.png
 
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No idea if it's a practical suggestion, but is there a way to check that the fuel path from sender filter to fuel outlet in the top, is clear? I don't suspect anything, but thinking it as an electric circuit, I'd want to be sure it was a "short circuit"
Mac.
 
No idea if it's a practical suggestion, but is there a way to check that the fuel path from sender filter to fuel outlet in the top, is clear? I don't suspect anything, but thinking it as an electric circuit, I'd want to be sure it was a "short circuit"
Mac.
Open to all suggestions , things to try, not sure how I could test this ? Take the sender out again and see if I can pass brake cleaner through or diesel?
 
Open to all suggestions , things to try, not sure how I could test this ? Take the sender out again and see if I can pass brake cleaner through or diesel?
In theory, test with diesel.
Maybe a syringe, with a tube attached, the other end on the the sender outlet, then suck it, and see ...
Mac.
 
If all's well at the sender repeat at the input to the tandem pump?
I like step by step troubleshooting, ruling a part out, then moving to the next.
Mac.
 
I have extensive experience with TDI fuel systems, especially A2 TDI's and can offer you the benefit of some of my experience and knowledge.

IMHE a blocked fuel filter will not stop a TDI from starting. The first symptoms of a blocked fuel filter will be hesitation at high fuel demand ie accelerating up a hill. If the car didn't exhibit these symptoms when it last ran then changing the fuel filter probably won't fix it. That's not to say that a new fuel filter might not help or is a waste of time. It's possible that a blocked fuel filter has caused excessive negative in the fuel lines such that air has entered the fuel system and reached the injectors. If this has occurred the car will not start even after the new fuel filter until the air has been bled from the injectors. I once had a TDI fuel filter so blocked that the car was virtually undriveable....but it still started.

It is also possible that air has reached your injectors for other reasons that have been touched on in this thread. These might include running out of fuel due to faulty tank sensor and parked on hill; rodents eating fuel lines; decay of fuel lines due to abrasion; natural hardening of fuel lines due to diesel at connectors; leaking tandem pump.

I have experience all of the above reasons (some multiple times) for a non starter.

It's important to realise (so I'll say it again) that one air is in the injectors it will be almost impossible to start (even after the cause is fixed) without sucking the air from the injectors through the fuel return pipe. You are more likely to flatten your battery before it starts just by cranking. The TDI fuel system self bleeds very well when it is running but one air is in the injectors and it is stopped it does not self bleed.

The process I would follow (some of which you have already done but understand I am also writing this for future readers) would be:

1. Check all fuel lines in the engine bay for signs of damage.
2. Pay close attention to where rubber fuel lines connect to metal. Try twisting the rubber on the metal spigot without undoing the clip. If it moves then the rubber has gone hard and that is probably where air is getting in. Tightening the connection will probably not help, new, supple fuel pipe is required.
3. Run your fingers underneath the tandem pump where it connects to the engine block. Any sign of diesel here is evidence you need a new tandem pump gasket. A leak here will stop it starting.
4. Check fuel pickup in tank is not plugged.
5. Replace Fuel filter. Though this is not the likely root cause, a blocked filter will exaggerate the leak points above.
6. Scan for possible electrical causes.
7. Bleed fuel system as follows: Disconnect fuel return pipe in engine bay. The easiest place to do this is on the left hand side (when facing engine) connection. Take the rubber pipe off the metal pipe going across the front. The return is the lower metal pipe. Connect a vacuum device to the metal pipe and apply suction. I use something like this:


Once vacuum applied get an assistant to crank the starter for 10 seconds at a time while constantly applying more vacuum. If you have used a clear pipe from the kit above, you will see air in the fuel. On second or third attempt it should splutter into life. Make sure the assistant switches it off before the canister is full of diesel.
8. Once it starts, run at tickover for a few minutes for the remaining air to clear.

Don't assume that an absence of external diesel means there isn't an air leak in. The fuel system is mostly under negative pressure so air in doesn't necessarily equate to diesel out.

If you find a possible source of air in the fuel system then eurika! fix it, start as above, problem solved. If you don't find any possible sources of air in the fuel system then starting as above will still likely work but you will not have resolved the issue. It's possible that the new filter will create less negative pressure and so the problem may appear fixed for a while but will eventually return.

If trying to start as above fails then air in the fuel system might NOT be the issue and you might have to consider other possible causes like relays or engine timing (has the cambelt been changed recently). However in 95% of non starting cases I have experienced, following the above will get it sorted.

Hope this help you or anyone else who has a non starting TDI.
 
Does anyone know on the sender if which one is inlet / outlet and do they have any non return valves?
I have extensive experience with TDI fuel systems, especially A2 TDI's and can offer you the benefit of some of my experience and knowledge.

IMHE a blocked fuel filter will not stop a TDI from starting. The first symptoms of a blocked fuel filter will be hesitation at high fuel demand ie accelerating up a hill. If the car didn't exhibit these symptoms when it last ran then changing the fuel filter probably won't fix it. That's not to say that a new fuel filter might not help or is a waste of time. It's possible that a blocked fuel filter has caused excessive negative in the fuel lines such that air has entered the fuel system and reached the injectors. If this has occurred the car will not start even after the new fuel filter until the air has been bled from the injectors. I once had a TDI fuel filter so blocked that the car was virtually undriveable....but it still started.

It is also possible that air has reached your injectors for other reasons that have been touched on in this thread. These might include running out of fuel due to faulty tank sensor and parked on hill; rodents eating fuel lines; decay of fuel lines due to abrasion; natural hardening of fuel lines due to diesel at connectors; leaking tandem pump.

I have experience all of the above reasons (some multiple times) for a non starter.

It's important to realise (so I'll say it again) that one air is in the injectors it will be almost impossible to start (even after the cause is fixed) without sucking the air from the injectors through the fuel return pipe. You are more likely to flatten your battery before it starts just by cranking. The TDI fuel system self bleeds very well when it is running but one air is in the injectors and it is stopped it does not self bleed.

The process I would follow (some of which you have already done but understand I am also writing this for future readers) would be:

1. Check all fuel lines in the engine bay for signs of damage.
2. Pay close attention to where rubber fuel lines connect to metal. Try twisting the rubber on the metal spigot without undoing the clip. If it moves then the rubber has gone hard and that is probably where air is getting in. Tightening the connection will probably not help, new, supple fuel pipe is required.
3. Run your fingers underneath the tandem pump where it connects to the engine block. Any sign of diesel here is evidence you need a new tandem pump gasket. A leak here will stop it starting.
4. Check fuel pickup in tank is not plugged.
5. Replace Fuel filter. Though this is not the likely root cause, a blocked filter will exaggerate the leak points above.
6. Scan for possible electrical causes.
7. Bleed fuel system as follows: Disconnect fuel return pipe in engine bay. The easiest place to do this is on the left hand side (when facing engine) connection. Take the rubber pipe off the metal pipe going across the front. The return is the lower metal pipe. Connect a vacuum device to the metal pipe and apply suction. I use something like this:


Once vacuum applied get an assistant to crank the starter for 10 seconds at a time while constantly applying more vacuum. If you have used a clear pipe from the kit above, you will see air in the fuel. On second or third attempt it should splutter into life. Make sure the assistant switches it off before the canister is full of diesel.
8. Once it starts, run at tickover for a few minutes for the remaining air to clear.

Don't assume that an absence of external diesel means there isn't an air leak in. The fuel system is mostly under negative pressure so air in doesn't necessarily equate to diesel out.

If you find a possible source of air in the fuel system then eurika! fix it, start as above, problem solved. If you don't find any possible sources of air in the fuel system then starting as above will still likely work but you will not have resolved the issue. It's possible that the new filter will create less negative pressure and so the problem may appear fixed for a while but will eventually return.

If trying to start as above fails then air in the fuel system might NOT be the issue and you might have to consider other possible causes like relays or engine timing (has the cambelt been changed recently). However in 95% of non starting cases I have experienced, following the above will get it sorted.

Hope this help you or anyone else who has a non starting TDI.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this and explaining steps to take . I may delay swapping out the filter so as to not introduce another variable until I have checked 1-4 again.

4. Check fuel pickup in tank is not plugged. - Is this the level sender unit or something else you are refering to? and do I need to dismantle . I took level sender out and cleaned and flushed through.
6. Have rescanned and no DTCs logged . All I have is issue with right rear door lock.

A question with all of the above if there were timing issue or snapped belt ( no belt hasnt been touched for last year at least), or air at the injectors would it start with Easy Start and die as it no longer has a supply of fuel.?
 
Does anyone know on the sender if which one is inlet / outlet and do they have any non return valves?

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this and explaining steps to take . I may delay swapping out the filter so as to not introduce another variable until I have checked 1-4 again.

4. Check fuel pickup in tank is not plugged. - Is this the level sender unit or something else you are refering to? and do I need to dismantle . I took level sender out and cleaned and flushed through.
6. Have rescanned and no DTCs logged . All I have is issue with right rear door lock.

A question with all of the above if there were timing issue or snapped belt ( no belt hasnt been touched for last year at least), or air at the injectors would it start with Easy Start and die as it no longer has a supply of fuel.?
The return on the sender has a one way valve, it's fairly obvious, as on the pickup pipe you can see straight through, but the return you can see a valve.
 
Did you open it all up, and fully disassemble? There are lots of nooks and crannies for muck to hide. The bottom pickup filter comes off easily, and the inner bit pops out easy enough too. I would say it is well worth doing a very thorough strip down and clean. Good luck :)
No I haven't.taken it apart , I fired brake cleaner.through it at every opening I could find....maybe I will revisit this also and thanks 👍
 
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