Wont start. Fuel pump/relay
- Thread starter Tmmo
- Start date
D
Deleted member 20348
Guest
Alternatively have a go at removing the the drain screw on the car with mole grips?
If that works no rotary tool work will be required. That is providing the drain screw cap is removed safely. The rusted nut is spinning and that's grand as it is of no use but the outer lip of the drain screw you could perhaps get mole grips on it to unwind it?
Depending on the depth of the plastic nut under the drain screw cap do pre-check the mole grips are not going to damage it too severely.
If the mole grips are causing damage then it's back to the rotary tool and a steady hand.
EDIT
Image credit @audifan
Edit
The way my logic works is possibly a bit different?
I don't want to damage the end cap. (that has not been suggested at all)
I don't mind damaging the drain screw and the outer lip of the drain screw.
The bolt is spinning so that's no use.
To begin I choose the least risky and destructive method to remove the drain screw.
And would incrementally increase the destructive nature to remove the end cap (undamaged) and totally bypass the removal of the drain screw while it's still on the vehicle.
All the best of luck.
If that works no rotary tool work will be required. That is providing the drain screw cap is removed safely. The rusted nut is spinning and that's grand as it is of no use but the outer lip of the drain screw you could perhaps get mole grips on it to unwind it?
Depending on the depth of the plastic nut under the drain screw cap do pre-check the mole grips are not going to damage it too severely.
If the mole grips are causing damage then it's back to the rotary tool and a steady hand.
EDIT
Image credit @audifan
Edit
The way my logic works is possibly a bit different?
I don't want to damage the end cap. (that has not been suggested at all)
I don't mind damaging the drain screw and the outer lip of the drain screw.
The bolt is spinning so that's no use.
To begin I choose the least risky and destructive method to remove the drain screw.
And would incrementally increase the destructive nature to remove the end cap (undamaged) and totally bypass the removal of the drain screw while it's still on the vehicle.
All the best of luck.
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Thanks all, I've tried to grip, turn and pull down to remove the drain plug , it only seems to spin, this is the black plastic, it seems to move about 1 screw thread , Im wondering if the other end of the rusted thread thats visible with the nut is actually a bolt or something and the head of the bolt is on the other side of the lid. even grabbing the thread which is visible, there is sufficient to grab hold of , all it does is spin , the black plastic also moves; ill give the rotary tool a go in the morning and update .
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Disconnect fuel return line on left hand side when facing engine. The lower of two metal fuel pipes going across the front of engine is the return. Plug the rubber pipe to the tank with a bolt if necessary. Attach vacuum kit to metal pipe and suck fuel/air through injectors/tandem pump. When flow slows/stops, start cranking while keeping vacuum applied ie keep renewing vacuum by continuous pumping. Diesel might need emptying from pot. If/when it starts be ready to switch off before pot overfills. Easier with 2 people.
johnyfartbox
A2OC Donor
So have I been doing it wrong?
I was advised to pull fuel up from the tank with my rubber hand pump into the tandem pump, or have I misunderstood your reply TAABVW ?
Assuming you are trying to get it to start, that's how I would do it. If the fuel lines are completely empty then be careful not to over stress the starter. For this reason, there may be some merit in trying to fill the fuel lines but I've never had to.
audifan
A2OC Donor
Yes you vacuum the fuel from the tank through the tandem by placing the vacuum on the return port of the tandem. This is the only was to ensure the fuel is sucked all the way into the tandem, through the fuel manifold and injectors and back out through the return port. This way when you disconnect the vacuum the fuel is still all the way to the injectors.
Once the air is vacuumed out from the pump and the manifold the occasional crank will induce the fuel a bit quicker but only if there are more than one of you. The engine must not be allowed to run with the vacuum still fitted.
Once the air is vacuumed out from the pump and the manifold the occasional crank will induce the fuel a bit quicker but only if there are more than one of you. The engine must not be allowed to run with the vacuum still fitted.
If im reading and understanding this correctly both methods are doing the same but at different places @johnyfartbox is doing this process prior to tandem so ensuring pipe from filter to tandem and as you have suggested post the pump/ injectors so filter to post tandem/injectors . the latter additionally ensures the tandem and injectors are cleared too. Is this correct?
Hoping for good weather here tomorrow so I may try this. Just wondering if its worth doing this before taking a dremmel to the filter housing and getting a new filter in. I know I need to change the fuel filter.
You might learn something in terms of making diagnostic progress if you try this first. The clear pipe will show if you are getting fuel to the engine. If it starts you could connect clear pipe to the return fuel line and watch for bubble/froth as it ticks over. This would indicate that air is being continually bled out of the fuel and show the fuel feed line isn't sealed.
audifan
A2OC Donor
Back to the drain screw..
If you use a strap wrench on the edge of the drain assembly and try to remove there are two possible outcome ( three if you count failure )
1. The drain screw assembly turns and is removed.
2. The filter cover turns and can be removed.
Try to apply a bit of counter torque to the housing at the same time to prevent damaging it.
Remember every time a pipe is disconnected you increase the change of it not sealing and creating a path for air.
If you use a strap wrench on the edge of the drain assembly and try to remove there are two possible outcome ( three if you count failure )
1. The drain screw assembly turns and is removed.
2. The filter cover turns and can be removed.
Try to apply a bit of counter torque to the housing at the same time to prevent damaging it.
Remember every time a pipe is disconnected you increase the change of it not sealing and creating a path for air.
D
Deleted member 20348
Guest
I'm adding this for those who maybe not familiar with the names of tools, what they look like and how to use them.
A strap wrench is what I called the oil filter housing removal tool (I use it for that particular job) but it's a good tool for gripping any cylindrical object.
Wiki
As @depronman said use it to apply counter torque.
Recap
I would use a strap wrench in this specific task to hold the cylindrical body of the fuel filter housing to prevent it rotating when force is being applied to the 27mm plastic nut on the cap of the filter housing (i.e. not the drain screw).
The tool I have is similar but made of metal which possibly may not hold the plastic filter body as well compared to the rubber strap tool shown in the Wikipedia image.
A strap wrench is what I called the oil filter housing removal tool (I use it for that particular job) but it's a good tool for gripping any cylindrical object.
Wiki
As @depronman said use it to apply counter torque.
Recap
I would use a strap wrench in this specific task to hold the cylindrical body of the fuel filter housing to prevent it rotating when force is being applied to the 27mm plastic nut on the cap of the filter housing (i.e. not the drain screw).
The tool I have is similar but made of metal which possibly may not hold the plastic filter body as well compared to the rubber strap tool shown in the Wikipedia image.
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First break in the weather . I presume the leftmost so lower line needs to be disconnected . Do I need a special hose pliers to undo the clamp. Given where the fingers are on the clamp my hose removal.tool doesnt .have space between the other line . Can a normal set of pliers be used on these and are they single use or can they be reused ?
Attachments
johnyfartbox
A2OC Donor
Thats my job for tomorrow, take off that return pipe and see what happens.
2work
Well Known Member
Hello Neil @tnpali01,
Very sorry to see that the previous owners mechanic conducted such a bodge at the fuel filter. From memory it was changed during their ownership which is when it much have been
Hopefully, with the collective flow of information that you’ve got this resolved now. Cannot wait to read that these woes behind you and that Project 250 receiving yet another MOT.
Kind regards,
Tom
Very sorry to see that the previous owners mechanic conducted such a bodge at the fuel filter. From memory it was changed during their ownership which is when it much have been
Hopefully, with the collective flow of information that you’ve got this resolved now. Cannot wait to read that these woes behind you and that Project 250 receiving yet another MOT.
Kind regards,
Tom
Lots of bubbles
seems to be continuing ... Does this process take sometime and I need to keep going ... or does this imply I have an air leak somewhere ?Attachments
Difficult to be sure at this stage. Keep sucking on it and crank it (easier with two people). Be prepared for it to start. If it starts that little tub will fill up with frothy fuel very quickly so don't get all excited at it starting, keep an eye on the tub so you switch it off before you get diesel in the vacuum pump workings. If it sounds like it's going to start and the tub is already quite full, it is prudent to stop and empty the tub into the fuel tank so when it starts you have an emptyish tub.
If you get that far then you are going to need some sort of connector to join the tub end of the clear tube to the rubber return line to the tank. You will then have a completed (sealed) return line with a plastic tube in it. Now restart and tickover until frothy bubbles clear. If they don't clear after about 10 minutes then you have air continually being drawn into the fuel feed and being bled out by the tandem pump. If the bubbles do clear, switch it off for a period of time (1hr - 1day) and repeat. If it doesn't start again or starts badly and you see froth in the clear tube again then you have an "air in" leak in the fuel supply system. If it starts fine (after standing overnight) and you see no air at all in the clear tube then the problem is elsewhere.