1,2 TDI clutch/ gearbox problems

Hi Rab !
OK I will do again, currently charging the battery to have the full voltage tomorrow.
I was trying to do basic settings again after my mistake, but the dash would still display "E" even going into Tiptronic Mode, and the gear wont change if I push up or down.
It look like the lever (sorry, not liver indeed), the gear engaged, and the display on the dash had all their own life as I was doing the mistake! The actuator was making noise like it wanted to break the speed box.

Now it remain in neutral and wont go in any gear.
At a point I just loosen the nut as describe (as in Neutral) but it was still a bit stress. I should adjust the rod, right?
I cant explain how the car was working OK but the rod is a bit short now!

So I should ignore the "00844 Switch for selector lever gate recognition -F257-" error code before doing basic setting again tomorrow?
Can these switch be cleaned with alcohol?

I'll carefully write down what's happening to report here.
Thank you very much for your help.
Francois
 
Hi Francois,

Nothing will work until you have a successful basic setting. Adjust the linkage by removing the cover under the engine and placing the front of the car on axle stands. The linkage is between the actuator and the gearbox. Loosen the 13mm A/F nut and retighten without disturbing the linkage. Don't ignore the error code, just delete if before the basic setting.

RAB
 
Back to my earlier error 12. The pump is not running. I have previously taken off the pump, and driven about 10 miles with it on another 3L, and it worked perfectly fitted to that car, 4 shifts between restarting. I have also replaced the gangsteller/hydraulic robot just now with a tested one that I have been driving with for a year.

The pump doesn't start when fitted to the problem lupo, I only get a humming noise. I checked fuses, and 31 was blown, which I replaced. No difference though. Any other ideas? There is a relay that controls the hydraulic pump J510. I am wondering which relay position that is on a Lupo 3L. Also does anyone know which fuse exactly relates to the pump?

I would also like to know if I can read the measuring blocks for the 2 potentiometers on the gangsteller/robot, also the shift lever tiptronic potentiometer.
Is there a table with all these useful measuring block values in it?

All pointers to info appreciated.
 
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Hi John,

There is a relay for the pump, J510 and a 20A fuse (SB47); the latter is located on the relay plate fuse holder.

RAB
 
Hi Rab, it works!

And it's really smooth now!!
Last time, after aborting the basic setting, even after switch off ignition, I forgot to say the car did continue the basic settings after restart and reconnect VCDS to basic settings, but only after staying about 10 minutes in triptronic mode and the foot on the brake, so it can (it will) somehow resume (even if it was ending by RTFM!).

So here the 3 things I did today:
- Indeed charged completely the battery, and leave the charger on as performing the basic settings. I suspect some of the weird things I had last time was due to low voltage (+/-12v, today 12.5v)
- Under the car I put the first gear and restart the car directly in Triptronic mode. I don't know how sensitive this car is so I felt it was right to start this way (as the car would expect to be in first gear in triptronic mode). And good I could start a basic Settings again (after deleting error code 00844).
- I had a RTFM! at first try, despite adjusting (I did not touch the rod length), so no panic, I did again "04 Basic settings" - "014 Go!" for a second try. But this time, under the car I did not just I loosen the nut and re-tight, I push into first gear, loosen the nut and re-tighten, then push into the second gear, adjust again, then again in first, and so on, until I really did not need to push hard to pass first to second gear. And this was the right thing to do!

I was able to finish the basic settings (even if, on the dash I could not see all the gear changes I was hearing during the process).
Now the car is smooth, the gear changes are much quieter. But I was not able to do the creep point.
On http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a2...rvice/basic_setting/performing_basic_setting/ I see I should have done that within 10 second after switching off ignition?

Whatever, bottom line :
- The gear actuator adjustment that is good enough for your car to run OK is not good enough to perform a basic settings without adjusting! (so the horrible noise I was hearing last time during first basic setting was due to poor adjustment, even if the car did work well like that).
- "Loosen the gear actuator nut and tighten it with zero-potential." on RossTech or whatever the VAG official manual says is only correct on (nearly) new gearbox. My car is 292.000 kms, the speed box 165.0000, there are some leaks, the pump start again after 3 gear changes only, but I could make this car running again despite all weird things I saw last time (the indicator on the dash was not where the lever was, error 00844 etc). As adjusting, you really should be able to move to first and second (or is it 3 and 4) gear without resistance before to move on with the basic settings.

Finally, to whoever have a 3L and would keep it long, I would suggest to change the oil every 90.000 kms, I did it and the colour of it wasn't nice. I also added an additive (maybe that's why the car was still running despite poor adjustment). Second, when you arrive to a Stop, push to neutral so the car do not retrograde into first gear (or move to triptronic mode to keep second gear at low speed/when you press a bit too much the accelerator - on Eco mode), as you would anyway never do that with a manual gearbox.

Voilà
Again, thank you RAB.
Francois.
 
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Hello John90

As investigating for my own issue, I found http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/archive/index.php/t-45797.html, partly in English, about measuring blocks for the shift lever tiptronic (blocks 022 or 005) : "Check measure block 005, Position 3 should show you the current gear lever position. A-STOP for stop, A-R for reverse, A-N for neutral, A-E for drive, ... Take a look at the switches and sensors at the gear lever and also their cables."
This topic is also about a RTFM! 12.

As I have seen on my car, because I mess up with the basic settings 014 (but also because the battery went low?), the indication about the shift lever was wrong (reading block 022 shows me for example "T-MI" instead of "T-0" as I was just in triptronic mode, but the dash shows "N" or next time "E"), but it all went right once able to just do the basic setting 014 ! So not sure you should loose time with this.

Can you check if you have 12v arriving to the pump?
 
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Hello 1200TDI,

I bought new microswitches and fitted them to my gear lever. The way to do this is to loosen/partly remove the exhaust, and take out the lever with the black box it is built in from underneath. I suspect I could have bent the metal arm on each microswitch to compensate for the wear instead of buying new ones. New ones on a small loom were about 50 euros.

Thanks for the tip about Group 16. 239 and 240 are exactly what I want to look at. I have rebuilt a faulty and leaking actuator with new seals and gaskets and it shifts nicely during basic setting, and doesn't leak, but I get RTFM12 and suspect a potentiometer.

Hi RAB,

I see a 2 rows of 5 relays on the Lupo after moving the fuse box to one side. They have numbers like 109 painted on them. They don't correspond to J510. I wondered if you knew how to map them to the relay panel?
 
Hi John,

The RTFM fault codes on http://wiki.ross-tech.com shows :
In case there is an Error during the Basic Setting, the Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) will show RTFM! followed by a Number which describes the Reason why it failed.

7 = Potentiometer 2 for Gear Recognition (G240)
Check Switches and Wiring/Connectors using Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) and Wiring Diagram.
8 = Potentiometer 1 for Gear Recognition (G239)
Check Switches and Wiring/Connectors using Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) and Wiring Diagram.
9 = Reverse Light Switch (F4)
Check Switches and Wiring/Connectors using Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) and Wiring Diagram.
10 = Potentiometer Values fluctuating during Measurement
Check the corresponding Potentiometers in Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 015 to 018
Check Fault Codes (repair if necessary) and Perform Basic Setting again
11 = Potentiometer Values
Check the corresponding Potentiometers in Measuring Value Blocks (MVB) 015 to 018
Check Fault Codes (repair if necessary) and Perform Basic Setting again
12 = Gear Actuator incorrectly adjusted or measured values out of specification.
Potentiometer, Valves and Selector Finger at the Ball Heads for correct assembly and seating
Perform Basic Setting again after adjusting the Gear Actuator

Maybe a potentiometer inside the Gear actuator is giving back bad info.
Once I bought on ebay.de (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Gangsteller-Austausch-Reparatur-VW-Lupo-3l-FSI-Audi-A2-/130447601515?) a Gear actuator for another 3L and the guy told me the oil used for the actuator can destroy (dissolve the protection ?) the potentiometers, so a Gear actuator that had big leaks need new potentiometers (or to be cleaned quickly).
I don't know how VAG use potentiometers that cannot stand the oil they use, but that conversation fit somehow to your story and the RTFM12 error listed above.
Otherwise, a search with RTFM12 gives a lot of result!
Regards
francois
 
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John90 said:
Hi RAB,

I see a 2 rows of 5 relays on the Lupo after moving the fuse box to one side. They have numbers like 109 painted on them. They don't correspond to J510. I wondered if you knew how to map them to the relay panel?
Click to expand...

The J510 is just a system number. The relay is in position 2 on the plate and is numbered 404.

RAB
 
1200TDI: Potentiometer 239 values are continually bouncing up and down in group 16, so I will take a look at that/clean or replace. Thanks!
RAB: Thanks for the relay location. Googling Stromlaufplan-3l got me fuse 47 feeding that relay, and red/white as the power wire to the pump. So all set to drive over with a spare relay/fuses and investigate. Hopefully I can drive it home soon!
 
RAB: The pump relay was faulty, relay position2, and numbered "53". Made in Morocco, the braided wire spot welded to both the moving contact and the coil frame was loose at the frame end. The plastic cover must have been pressing it on intermittently for a while, confusing the previous owner causing them to sell the car as defective. As I moved the fuse board slightly to one side, I could see the cover was completely popped off the relay in position 2. I replaced the relay with one off my other Lupo and it drove home with no issues.

Now I can focus on fixing the spare actuator I rebuilt, that suspect potentiometer.
 
I'm often tempted to buy defective 3L's because fixing them is a doddle (mainly!). The trouble is that you have to get them home first!

I hope it's not the sensor on the bottom (linkage) end, because apparently it cannot be replaced. Was the actuator leaking oil?

RAB
 
No, the actuator on this car was oil tight, but the top lever pinch bolt had worked loose, so it needed to come off. I replaced the actuator anyway with the one off my daily driver 3L, and also the hydraulic pump, before I discovered the relay was the cause. The oil in the actuator was very dark, so it was not a bad idea to drain it anyway. I bought my daily driver as a non-runer too, and then purchased a complete hydraulic system with Actuator off ebay Germany. The seller had converted his 3L to manual. So it is the original actuator off my daily driver I am fixing now. This had leaked, and it is the lower potentiometer for gear selection that is dodgy. The upper one connected to the linkage actuator is OK. Hopefully I can clean/degrease the pot and reseal with silicon/o-rings as appropriate.

I bought the daily driver from a dealer who delivered it for 100 pounds, and the recent purchase I just added to my existing (Swiss) Lupo number plate, so I can switch plates and share insurance etc. I can imagine purchasing a 3L internationally from the UK is a hassle.
 
Hello Guys,

I have a lupo 3l. The problem is the following: in basic settings it doesn't want to change from searching to ign off. Of course after this the whole procedure wont work. I mean the creep point adoptation. Now the car could shift but always says that something is wrong in base settings and after a couple of minutes it doesn't want to find reverse. And the start after a stop is not good it feels like he slips the clutch to much time.
 
You either have a problem with the clutch actuator or the clutch guide sleeve is worn. The latter is more likely and means a new clutch.

RAB
 
OHH! Is there a way to specify somehow which is bad?
The actuator keeps the voltage as specified so perhaps you are right and I have a problem with the second one.
You mean the nr 7 is worn? Képkivágás.JPG
 
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Guide sleeve changed, clutch-release bearing changed, clutch disk changed, clutch assy changed. So finally the basic settings could be done. It worked well. But after 200km now again something is wrong. It doesn't want to change gear. it indicates on dashboard but not phisically and doesn't want to strart. On dash the red exlamation sign flashes. No error codes, we suspect that the in somewhere in the electrical harness something wrong. But in the mentioned 200 km it was a pleasure to drive.
 
Check so that the gear actuator rod is connected to the two ball joints.
The ball joints has a tendency to loosen.

That generally gives that problem, not a common one, but it happens.
Check that out and get back to us.
 
dpalinko said:
Guide sleeve changed, clutch-release bearing changed, clutch disk changed, clutch assy changed. So finally the basic settings could be done. It worked well. But after 200km now again something is wrong. It doesn't want to change gear. it indicates on dashboard but not phisically and doesn't want to strart. On dash the red exlamation sign flashes. No error codes, we suspect that the in somewhere in the electrical harness something wrong. But in the mentioned 200 km it was a pleasure to drive.
Click to expand...

It's may be a brake issue, maybe the brake switch. The exclamation mark indicates a brake problem. Check the brake fluid level. But the exclamation mark will show anyway with the handbrake on. So may be nothing to do with the brakes. If the brake switch doesn't work in park mode, you won't be able to start. Try starting in neutral. May also indicate a failing clutch actuator.

Does it change gear in Tiptronic mode with the ignition on but without the engine running? If so, how many gear changes before the pump re-starts?

RAB
 
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luzt said:
Check so that the gear actuator rod is connected to the two ball joints.
The ball joints has a tendency to loosen.

That generally gives that problem, not a common one, but it happens.
Check that out and get back to us.
Click to expand...

Checked that is ok.
 
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