Anyone actually understand the Audi lineup nowadays...?

[Poor_John]

I am still stopped by total strangers in car parks, who ask questions about my eleven year old car. That has never happened with any other car I've ever driven, so I give Audi full credit for creating such an appealing car.

As for anything in the current range having appeal, the What Car 2013 Awards magazine has just hit the shelves here and the £27,145 Audi TT 2.0 TFSI 211 Sport won the best coupé. Winner of the best small family car is the £19,825 Audi A3 Sportback 1.4 TFSI 122 SE, which is also their car of the year. Congratulations Audi!

John.

 

[shreddedmeat]

I am still stopped by total strangers in car parks, who ask questions about my eleven year old car. That has never happened with any other car I've ever driven, so I give Audi full credit for creating such an appealing car.

As for anything in the current range having appeal, the What Car 2013 Awards magazine has just hit the shelves here and the £27,145 Audi TT 2.0 TFSI 211 Sport won the best coupé. Winner of the best small family car is the £19,825 Audi A3 Sportback 1.4 TFSI 122 SE, which is also their car of the year. Congratulations Audi!

John.

I cannot believe they chose the TT over the 25k GT86. Now that's a car that piques my interest (Just looked on autotrader, 22k buys you a 12 reg with well under 10000 on the clock)

 

[humps]

I cannot believe they chose the TT over the 25k GT86. Now that's a car that piques my interest (Just looked on autotrader, 22k buys you a 12 reg with well under 10000 on the clock)

It does put things into perspective, doesn't it? A lot of people like the GT86 as a proper driver's coupe but complained it is too expensive for 'only 200bhp'. Then there is a £27k TT with only slightly more power but in a FWD chassis that can't even match the Renault hatchbacks, let alone giving the driving fun the GT86 can deliver!

 

[shreddedmeat]

It does put things into perspective, doesn't it? A lot of people like the GT86 as a proper driver's coupe but complained it is too expensive for 'only 200bhp'. Then there is a £27k TT with only slightly more power but in a FWD chassis that can't even match the Renault hatchbacks, let alone giving the driving fun the GT86 can deliver!

Yeh, 'only' 200. I think the point is its just enough, plus its a NA boxer and it'll still give you nearly 40mpg. Proper, brilliantly engineered car. I really want one

I do like the hot Clios (considered a 172/182 before the A2) but it's not even a fair comparison. IMO they could have easily given the 86/BRZ 250-270 ish bhp and charged 30+ grand for it, but then it wouldn't be the car it is. Word is it's v.easy to tune as well...

Oh and p.s. 5 year warranty anyone? Or the 3 year Subaru package that includes ridiculous things like free car washing and detaling, free wheel balancing, and free scratch and alloy wheel repair?

 

[Will]

I guess like many I've read a lot of reviews of the GT86. I like a lot of what I've read, but do also feel that it lacks in the performance department. I'm less worried about the 200bhp than I am about the only 150lbft of torque which in a 1250kg seems lacking. 180-190lbft and/or in a 1100kg body would have properly lifted it about the competition. I hope it sells well nevertheless.

 

[FlyingScot]

I previously had an Elise 111S and now have a VX220. If you like light small plastic cars they're great The Evora is certainly a step up with regards to quality and everyday usability. I hope you enjoy your Lotus as much as I did mine.
Have you joined SELOC yet?

I've never tried any of the other Lotus cars but the Evora has now got me more interested in driving dynamics than ever before. I've been a total bike nut all my life, it's only now that I'm getting in to cars.
The VX220 etc. all sound like they'd be fantastic experiences to drive, I'm planning a test drive of the new Exige S V6 soon, 345bhp, 1080kg, 0-60 in 3.8 seconds - sounds fantastic if probably a little bit too lairy for most.

Joined SELOC straight away, lots of excellent information on there. I'm also a member of Scottish Elises Forum, again lots of good info and a really great crowd on there.

Back to the point of the thread - I really like my current vehicles, they're more than just transport. It's not only Audi that have the problem of boring cars all the big manufacturers keep bringing out more expensive cars with less excitement every year. They also seem to be getting bigger and heavier every year too. Is legislation the problem??

Good on Toyota/Subaru for trying to bring a little excitment back in to motoring for the masses - that new coupe ticks all the boxes and I'm sure the tuners and modifiers will be loving it.

 

[dan_b]

The "size creep" of modern cars is getting to ridiculous levels though isn't it. The current Polo is bigger than the Golf used to be not so long ago. The A3 looks to me about the size of an A6 from not so long ago, and the A8 is an absolute barge. It's the same with all other manufacturers - the current Vauxhall Astra is at least as big as the Carlton was, and let's not get started on the Mini Clubman!

 

[shreddedmeat]

I guess like many I've read a lot of reviews of the GT86. I like a lot of what I've read, but do also feel that it lacks in the performance department. I'm less worried about the 200bhp than I am about the only 150lbft of torque which in a 1250kg seems lacking. 180-190lbft and/or in a 1100kg body would have properly lifted it about the competition. I hope it sells well nevertheless.

Digging a little deeper, it's hard to imagine it can be that bad. 90% of that torque is available right from 2800rpm which isn't too shabby for an NA petrol I would say. In the Chris Harris review on Drive he said you simply don't care that it's not as powerful as you might expect...

let's not get started on the Mini Clubman!

Definitely not!

 

[dan_b]

People never really used to complain that the Lotus Elise wasn't "powerful" enough because the car's handling and dynamics were so good that the car's performance was there to be enjoyed by actually driving it, not just accelerating fast. I'm sure the same applies to the GT86.
So many cars these days are such large, heavy blunt instruments that divorce the driver from everything that's going on that the only sensation left to experience is that of acceleration (and braking?), and of course because you can easily put a big number on power (and torque) it's easy to create marketing and bragging rights around those tangible factors. Far harder to market, explain, brag, sell what intangible, actual driving enjoyment, feels like.

 

[shreddedmeat]

no torque for the real world, uncomfortable and noisy.

But surely for it to be a true comparison the TT would tick these boxes and still be a great drivers car? And I can't help but think we overstate the importance of torque nowadays anyhow...

At any rate I've enjoyed this discussion of non-A2 motoring, makes a nice change!

 

[the grim reeper]

I read last week BMW bringing a FWD Z2 based on the next Mini's platform. My immediate thought is when will Audi make a small 2 seater TT to match?

They already do ok its a roadster but it is a two seater but its got a cloth roof and no sign of a coupe version. now for me i get to see and drive just about all the new VAG cars and i would be hard pushed to swap my A2 for anything in the current line up

You also forgot to mention that Audi have also made or thinking of making a Q6 for asian market

Phil

 

[FlyingScot]

But surely for it to be a true comparison the TT would tick these boxes and still be a great drivers car?

Having recently driven one I have to say it's no 'drivers' car. It handles like a barge, very front end heavy, as soon as you start to try and push on in the bends it just runs wide all the time and the steering is dead. I guess Audi are still scared of what happened when the TT first came out and all those yuppies were flying backwards in to the bushes.
Hustling the little A2 through the bends is far more fun, not as quick (certainly not with miy skinny 15" tyres) but more fun.

 

[dan_b]

Audis have always been front-heavy and biased to understeer, even more so in quattro form.

 

[humps]

Interesting views and discussions indeed. It goes back to the original point, you probably don't understand a lot of the Audi models these days. 4x4s that don't care about off road (ok, not Audi's fault), a sports coupe that puts luxury and comfort over sports driving experience and fun. 'Coupes', more like GTs, that are offered in 2 or 4 doors and in multiple sizes. In fact, driving experience is probably the last item in the priority list for all Audis!

I had the same discussion about torque at work yesterday, it was about the very cheap RX8. It has a beautifully balanced chassis, like a drink or two. Here is what I don't get, it is a sports car with a manual gear box, feel free to change gear and use the rev, it is part of the fun! It makes an addictive noise above 6k rpm too! I bet in a separate discussion about manual vs auto gearbox, the same people will say 'I want a manual, I want control, it is driver involvement ...etc'. But in fact they just can't be bothered to work the car in the right gear!

 

[shreddedmeat]

Interesting views and discussions indeed. It goes back to the original point, you probably don't understand a lot of the Audi models these days. 4x4s that don't care about off road (ok, not Audi's fault), a sports coupe that puts luxury and comfort over sports driving experience and fun. 'Coupes', more like GTs, that are offered in 2 or 4 doors and in multiple sizes. In fact, driving experience is probably the last item in the priority list for all Audis!

I had the same discussion about torque at work yesterday, it was about the very cheap RX8. It has a beautifully balanced chassis, like a drink or two. Here is what I don't get, it is a sports car with a manual gear box, feel free to change gear and use the rev, it is part of the fun! It makes an addictive noise above 6k rpm too! I bet in a separate discussion about manual vs auto gearbox, the same people will say 'I want a manual, I want control, it is driver involvement ...etc'. But in fact they just can't be bothered to work the car in the right gear!

RX8 is a bargain. I was a passenger in one years ago and it was a riot.

Audis have always been front-heavy and biased to understeer, even more so in quattro form.

Is the A2 a rare exception? Goes round corners like a whippet on rails compared to nearly all other small cars I've driven!

 

[dan_b]

Yes I believe it is. I do remember when the A2 came out that several motoring journalists commented on it's un-Audi like steering response.

Is the A2 a rare exception? Goes round corners like a whippet on rails compared to nearly all other small cars I've driven!

 

[iainmd]

I've long hankered after an Elise, had forgotten about the Evora, don't see many of them about. Would be nice to have two Aluminium cars

The Volvo dealer near me is also a Lotus dealer. Every time I'm in I have a gander at their cars in the showroom. I really do like Lotus' design but I would always worry about owning such a niche brand. I know people that have owned them and found older parts impossible to get and have suffered some build quality issues.

They had a quite laughable matt black Europa in there this week. I can't imaging the paint looking good on that in 12 months time.

 

[FlyingScot]

Yes I believe it is. I do remember when the A2 came out that several motoring journalists commented on it's un-Audi like steering response.

When I had the 17" wheels on mine it was great in the bends, plenty feed back through the wheel and it felt pretty well balanced, not front end heavy like the bigger Audis.
The 15" wheels and higher profile skinny tyres have kind of spoiled that, now it just slides about a lot and the steering has lost a bit of feeling but it's still more fun than that TT I tried.

 

[FlyingScot]

The Volvo dealer near me is also a Lotus dealer. Every time I'm in I have a gander at their cars in the showroom. I really do like Lotus' design but I would always worry about owning such a niche brand. I know people that have owned them and found older parts impossible to get and have suffered some build quality issues.

They had a quite laughable matt black Europa in there this week. I can't imaging the paint looking good on that in 12 months time.

That'll be Murray Motors?
That's where I bought my Evora. Their after sales service really is superb. There has been a few problems with my Evora but the service manager in there couldn't have been more helpful. He has an Evora himself and is quite an enthusiast.

I reckon that matt black car your talking about is actually a new Evora, it's on their web site.
Not keen on the matt finish myself but each to their own. I'm sure the paint quality will be good though.

Buying a car like that is always going to be a bit of an experience. I wouldn't have one as my only transport. Time will tell with the Evora but I don't expect it to be trouble free. As long as the major items are reliable I can put up with more minor faults now and then.
Every time I drive that car it just makes me smile, I never knew a car could bring so much pleasure to the experience of getting from A to B. Even sitting on the motorway at 70 with the cruise control on feels special. Wish I could explain it better.

Worth a go if you ask me.

 

[iainmd]

Quite right. It is Murray and it's also an Evora. I think I kind of knew that and was on auto-type ;-)