Audi, Now and Then.

[mars]

Where is all the raw material for the batteries going to come from?

Recycling.
For, like, the 20% that doesn't come from mines

Where is all the electricity, to charges said batteries going to come from (not to mention the charge points)

Potentially, from renewables - which is more than what can be said for gasoline cars.
Otherwise, from fossil - in a more energetically efficient fashion than it would be to use it to fuel gasoline cars, surprisingly.

Electric cars are not important because they're a more efficient way to move with fossil, but because they're a way we have to shift pollution away from densely populated areas (which is important for our health) and make the shift to renewables we should all be either working on or fighting for that much more impactful (which is important for our planet): in a scenario where this shift has occurred, electric cars will not be pollutant at all - but gasoline cars will still be.
My hope is that the shift to electric occurs fast enough that the pollution of the remaining gasoline cars will be so negligible that the stringent regulations against them will be needless and antiquated, leaving governments free to let those who drive them for passion do so.

 

[Guest 4123]

I have two concerns.
Where is all the raw material for the batteries going to come from?
Where is all the electricity, to charges said batteries going to come from (not to mention the charge points)
Mac ?

1). From the Earth, just like the fossil fuels for your Audi. Current known supplies will be sufficient to 2050.
2). There's currently plenty of electricity available at night, when most people charge; that's why it's cheaper. Do we need more capacity? Most certainly. More charge points will be available when needed, not before they are required.

RAB

 

[Proghound]

My hope is that the shift to electric occurs fast enough that the pollution of the remaining gasoline cars will be so negligible that the stringent regulations against them will be needless and antiquated, leaving governments free to let those who drive them for passion do so.

You could certainly hope and wish so but with existing systems in place, the cost of collection of those taxes is going to be so small that I can't see any government giving up the revenues while they're there to be had

 

[PlasticMac]

Recycling.
For, like, the 20% that doesn't come from mines

Potentially, from renewables - which is more than what can be said for gasoline cars.
Otherwise, from fossil - in a more energetically efficient fashion than it would be to use it to fuel gasoline cars, surprisingly.

Electric cars are not important because they're a more efficient way to move with fossil, but because they're a way we have to shift pollution away from densely populated areas (which is important for our health) and make the shift to renewables we should all be either working on or fighting for that much more impactful (which is important for our planet): in a scenario where this shift has occurred, electric cars will not be pollutant at all - but gasoline cars will still be.
My hope is that the shift to electric occurs fast enough that the pollution of the remaining gasoline cars will be so negligible that the stringent regulations against them will be needless and antiquated, leaving governments free to let those who drive them for passion do so.

So the answer to second my question is "... we don't know yet ..."

1). From the Earth, just like the fossil fuels for your Audi. Current known supplies will be sufficient to 2050.
2). There's currently plenty of electricity available at night, when most people charge; that's why it's cheaper. Do we need more capacity? Most certainly. More charge points will be available when needed, not before they are required.

RAB

That's a very optimistic pair of answers, let's hope you are right ?
Mac.

 

[Guest 4123]

You could certainly hope and wish so but with existing systems in place, the cost of collection of those taxes is going to be so small that I can't see any government giving up the revenues while they're there to be had

I suspect he was thinking more of use, rather than taxation. His wishes for the removal of so-called "antiquated regulations" won't be answered anyway because, for instance, a car without EGR emits something like 40x more NOx. So, according to him, 40 people should give up their legal IC cars so that he can drive around in an now not-illegal IC car! No! Here's why:

Future of transport regulatory review: modernising vehicle standards

www.gov.uk

RAB

 

[johnyfartbox]

Recycling.
For, like, the 20% that doesn't come from mines

Potentially, from renewables - which is more than what can be said for gasoline cars.
Otherwise, from fossil - in a more energetically efficient fashion than it would be to use it to fuel gasoline cars, surprisingly.

Electric cars are not important because they're a more efficient way to move with fossil, but because they're a way we have to shift pollution away from densely populated areas (which is important for our health) and make the shift to renewables we should all be either working on or fighting for that much more impactful (which is important for our planet): in a scenario where this shift has occurred, electric cars will not be pollutant at all - but gasoline cars will still be.
My hope is that the shift to electric occurs fast enough that the pollution of the remaining gasoline cars will be so negligible that the stringent regulations against them will be needless and antiquated, leaving governments free to let those who drive them for passion do so.

Sounds daft, a bit like old steam trains and the like are broadly ignored.

 

[Guest 4123]

That's a very optimistic pair of answers

You have to be Mac! Who in 1900 would have predicted the level of car ownership today?

RAB

 

[PlasticMac]

You have to be Mac! Who in 1900 would have predicted the level of car ownership today?

RAB

True, hope for the best, put up with (inevitable) compromise ?
Mac.

 

[Guest 4123]

Sounds daft, a bit like old steam trains and the like are broadly ignored.

They are already experimenting with Biocoal!

CSR Undertakes First Test of Biocoal with a Steam Locomotive — Coalition for Sustainable Rail

From June 10-12, CSR teamed up with the Milwaukee County Zoo , the Natural Resources Research Institute , and New Biomass Energy to undertake the first test of torrefied biomass on a steam locomotive. The tests are a key step in ensuring that the fuel can be used in steam locomotives of all sizes

csrail.org

RAB

 

[Guest 4123]

True, hope for the best, put up with (inevitable) compromise ?
Mac.

What compromise is that then?

RAB

 

[mars]

So the answer to second my question is "... we don't know yet ..."

Well, no, we know - it's a mix of the two that depends on time and place. My point was that we can push for the prevalence of the better answer, which we can't do with gasoline cars.

You could certainly hope and wish so but with existing systems in place, the cost of collection of those taxes is going to be so small that I can't see any government giving up the revenues while they're there to be had

That's actually, given RAB was right in the guess I was talking about use, one more reason to make it happen - if you let people drive their "old style" cars around, since in this hypothetical those who still want to do so are mainly motivated by passion, you could place additional taxation to use for revenue!

His wishes for the removal of so-called "antiquated regulations" won't be answered anyway because, for instance, a car without EGR emits something like 40x more NOx. So, according to him, 40 people should give up their legal IC cars so that he can drive around in an now not-illegal IC car!

Pretty much.

No!

Yes.
In fact, it's already happening: many cities in my country, while banning or restricting the more pollutant IC cars, make exceptions for classics, a status mine has safely earned after four decades out there. And if you think that's crazy, just remember:

Sounds daft, a bit like old steam trains and the like are broadly ignored.

Steam trains are still out there, chugging along. They're just very infrequently seen because they're outdated technology whose only current purpose is The Experience™. Just like horses. Both of these modes of transport were worryingly pollutant (yes, carbon dioxide wasn't the worst pollutant in the early 1900s streets, and if you think that's horsecrap, you're spot on), but newer, better technologies supplanted them such that now the only ones wishing to use them are those interested in The Experience™, and that use case is so minor we can safely afford (as citizens, as a society, as a planet) to let them do so.
All I am saying is the same could go for cars if things were played smart enough.
Look to the nearest road and count the cars you see drive by. Count within them the sportscars, the classics, any car clearly bought to get an Experience™ of which the ICE is an integral part. They're not 1/40. Not even close. Not even including the ones with EGR. If all the other cars trotted around with no emissions whatsoever it would frankly be a puerile waste of time and resources to chase the 1%, if that, that still pollutes, when a .x% change in the fossil/renewable electricity ratio, or even just making cars lighter to decrease the pollution from tire wear, would have a larger impact.

 

[greywolfhound]

1). From the Earth, just like the fossil fuels for your Audi. Current known supplies will be sufficient to 2050.
2). There's currently plenty of electricity available at night, when most people charge; that's why it's cheaper. Do we need more capacity? Most certainly. More charge points will be available when needed, not before they are required.

RAB

One small point on charging at night if you have off peak electric as we do for an electric off peak aga ..your day rate is more expensive ..( they have to claw it back somehow) and with hikes in our bills forecast to go up to 50% more that’s another cost to factor in ..

 

[mars]

One small point on charging at night if you have off peak electric as we do for an electric off peak aga ..your day rate is more expensive ..( they have to claw it back somehow) and with hikes in our bills forecast to go up to 50% more that’s another cost to factor in ..

To expand on this, the main reason the costs are going up is we're in war with Russia - currently it's more of a cold war, but this both in name and in fact, given Russia controls most of the gas we use for heat and electricity and you can guess how gladly it'll spin the knobs closed if we give it too much attitude. < supply, > demand, > price. If we were further ahead with renewables and more households had switched to the superior induction stove and heat pumps this would be less of a problem.

 

[PlasticMac]

What compromise is that then?

RAB

By the first digit of the reg number, odds can charge on odd dates, evens on even dates.
Mac.

 

[mars]

To expand on this, the main reason the costs are going up is we're in war with Russia - currently it's more of a cold war, but this both in name and in fact, given Russia controls most of the gas we use for heat and electricity and you can guess how gladly it'll spin the knobs closed if we give it too much attitude. < supply, > demand, > price. If we were further ahead with renewables and more households had switched to the superior induction stove and heat pumps this would be less of a problem.

First post: "Look at this Audi ad, how have they changed in 20 years..."
Page 2: "Had we all more induction stoves we'd be more comfortable telling Putin a few hard truths"

EDIT: My original wording was harsher, and less family-friendly. I write this to acknowledge I should probably have not. ?

 

[Guest 4123]

By the first digit of the reg number, odds can charge on odd dates, evens on even dates.
Mac.

Even when you're at home? Why? Is that the best you can do? There's no shortage of renewable energy, it just needs the effort to collect it. Is it that hard for a former fossil fuel company employee to adapt? Just go to your local VW garage and book a test drive. It won't cost you anything and you'll quickly realise how primitive your fossil cars are!

RAB

 

[Guest 4123]

One small point on charging at night if you have off peak electric as we do for an electric off peak aga ..your day rate is more expensive ..( they have to claw it back somehow) and with hikes in our bills forecast to go up to 50% more that’s another cost to factor in ..

Easy solution. Record your meter readings every week for a year. You can then easily work out which supplier/tariff suits you best.

RAB

 

[PlasticMac]

Easy solution. Record your meter readings every week for a year. You can then easily work out which supplier/tariff suits you best.

RAB

If your EV is charged, on your day, but you don't need to use it, you can sell the electricity back to the grid. Google V2G.
Mac.

 

[mars]

It took me a couple seconds, I was like "I haven't said that".

 

[Guest 4123]

"If your EV is charged, but you don't need to use it on your day, you can sell the electricity back to the grid! Google V2G."

Only if you have a car with Chademo (which is slowly disappearing in Europe) but not with CCS.

RAB