IONIQ 5 - Reservation starts 25th Feb - delivery of the 3000 first ones planned for June/July - Cost ?

Olerype

Member
As a curiosity; in Norway green electricity is cheaper than fossile electricity.

BTW: Numerous reports show that EVs are greener than fossile cars.
 

Seb_Gurkyh

Member
Other than the weird triangle shape in the rear Doors and Quarterpanel, this Looks kinda "cool".
The short overhangs remind me of the Honda e which isnt exactly ugly either.

Edition 45 Base Price in Germany: 60k €
Base model Base Price: 42k € (32k€ after gov. rebates)

Soo... Not exactly affordable when youre Not into Leasing and financing.
Disregarding the whole Economy & Pollution topic I wouldn't mind driving one of These to Work and Charge it in the Home Garage, however when you have to Charge it Off the motorway at more than 1€/kWh, thats where any Ambition to buy an EV dies for me..
 

a2sumo

A2OC Donor
1€ per kw wow that’s expensive - I pay 23p per kw and even the new charging station in Braintree is 24p kw
I don’t charge at home - not yet anyway.
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
Electric vehicles are a dead-end with the current (no pun intended) available technology.
They are not environmentally sustainable, there's not enough raw materials available to build the batteries anyway and have you seen how mines operate?
Its all greenwashing, your electricity has to come from somewhere i.e.burning coal, gas or going nuclear. Wind and nuclear tech still requires the use of massive energy expenditure up front and then energy storage (hydro etc)
Want to cut pollution? Its not cars, trucks or air travel that are the big CO2 emitters:

Steel and cement production account for 30% of the worlds emissions.

1) They are better than burning hydrocarbons.
2) To imply burning fuel in a vehicle is the same as burning fuel in a power station is not comparible as small / individual vehicle engines are unbelievably inefficient in comparison. That's before you factor in the growing % of renewables. Additionally, it is reasonably possible to charge your car from your own solar but absolutely impossible to home-grow your own petrol.
3) The current fleet of EV's, whatever their shortcomings, are the vanguard for later developments for sure, but even early Mievs, Leafs and Zoes are out there still doing stirling service, some with huge mileages.
4) When broken their 70-80% capacity batteries can be used in a home solar / battery installation. Compare this to the 1000's of litres of fuel burnt in an ICE's lifetime: that'll never get recycled.
5) Once wind and solar is installed, running it pretty much ceases to have an environmental impact, unlike fossil based generation.
6) Just because other industries (or countries) emit more, absolutely doesn't absolve others from doing anything. Quite the opposite: by ducking the issue by using whatabout'ism, you lose all moral imperative to push for change.

I do find the whole debate facinating. If you have to replace a worn out car, surely it's best replaced by something that can run on renewables one way or another? But, where's the tipping point? Is an old, well maintained car that has long since worked out its cost of production better than a freshly produced EV? More honestly, I really want an EV but only if it's vaguely interesting: i3, Twizy, Outlander PHEV, iPace (I wish), yes. Old Prius, Leaf or Zoe? Absolutely not. Ionic 5: yes please!
 
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Rusty911

A2OC Donor
What we need is for people to travel (drive) less, along with a policy reversal on out of town retail development. Walk or cycle to the village shops, not drive to the retail park.

The current pandemic has shown what is possible for many. Commuting for hours every day en-masse just to be in an office could become a thing of the past.

PS I am not a climate change denier, but I am a realist and wasnt born yesterday.

Completely agree with all of this. I'm dismayed at how we're continuing to bake in traffic and movement into the structure of our lives. It's just nuts.
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
More honestly, I really want an EV but only if it's vaguely interesting: i3, Twizy, Outlander PHEV, iPace (I wish), yes.

A Twizy Barry? You'd be better off with a Brompton Electric. It would be cheaper too (just)!

How about a Citroen Ami:


RAB
 

VAG fool

Member
The solution to all of this is Hydrogen fuel cell electric.
Use the very reliable fusion device located some 93 million miles away to superheat steam to drive turbines, the turbines generate electricity, the electricity powers electrolysis plants to evolve hydrogen (the oxygen is a medical gas by product)
The same turbine generators drive compressors that store the hydrogen locally.
The tankers that usually deliver liquid fuel (and burn the same stuff in the process) could possibly run off the same H2.
H2 fuelling replaces petrol stations and the combusion process is.... water.
All powered by the sun.

Batteries are a only stepping stone and not a very good one at that.
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
The solution to all of this is Hydrogen fuel cell electric.
Use the very reliable fusion device located some 93 million miles away to superheat steam to drive turbines, the turbines generate electricity, the electricity powers electrolysis plants to evolve hydrogen (the oxygen is a medical gas by product)
The same turbine generators drive compressors that store the hydrogen locally.
The tankers that usually deliver liquid fuel (and burn the same stuff in the process) could possibly run off the same H2.
H2 fuelling replaces petrol stations and the combusion process is.... water.
All powered by the sun.

Batteries are a only stepping stone and not a very good one at that.

Totally agree but suggest batteries better short / medium term solution than ICE cars. I bought a Subaru from a chap that turned out to be an engineer with River Simple. Hgdrogen fuel cell in a very, very light car that used super-capacitors for braking / acceleration. Really interesting. I collected the Subaru the day after the Brexit vote and as much of RS research was EU funded it was a bit glum.

Lots of talk of offshore turbines having hydrogen generation inbuilt as an energy storage solution. I've got a feeling you can buy a Hgundai fuel cell car now?
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
A Twizy Barry? You'd be better off with a Brompton Electric. It would be cheaper too (just)!

How about a Citroen Ami:


RAB

Love the Ami! I'm so frustrated that by far the majority of EV's are massive things. I'd love something one small step up from a Twizy £15K, 80 mile range, two seat, warm and dry, really, really fun. Small enough to charge from home solar / home battery. That would literally do 85% of everything I need.

As for the Brompton, there are so many choices out there and unless you need it to fold, I can't see it. I do have an electric bike which is brilliant but ironically since the opening of a local bypass, the road is too busy to use it any more (lockdown aside), It's that that's driven my interest in EV's and hydrogen.
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
Love the Ami! I'm so frustrated that by far the majority of EV's are massive things. I'd love something one small step up from a Twizy £15K, 80 mile range, two seat, warm and dry, really, really fun. Small enough to charge from home solar / home battery. That would literally do 85% of everything I need.

As for the Brompton, there are so many choices out there and unless you need it to fold, I can't see it. I do have an electric bike which is brilliant but ironically since the opening of a local bypass, the road is too busy to use it any more (lockdown aside), It's that that's driven my interest in EV's and hydrogen.
I can charge my E-Up from the roof but only with no clouds and at 5A. VW have a charger that you can set to only charge from solar when available. At less than the minimum charge rate it switches off.

Local bypass in Heathfield? (We used to live in Lime Way). That's the second dual carriageway (or third?) in East Sussex then!

RAB
 

Rusty911

A2OC Donor
I can charge my E-Up from the roof but only with no clouds and at 5A. VW have a charger that you can set to only charge from solar when available. At less than the minimum charge rate it switches off.

Local bypass in Heathfield? (We used to live in Lime Way). That's the second dual carriageway (or third?) in East Sussex then!

RAB
Ahh, that is interesting, I wondered if a car could take a very low level of charge. What size array do you have?

Without wanting to embark on thread hyjack, the new bypass is near Bexhill and effectively has turned my road (B2096) into a shortcut from Hastings / Bexhill to Gatwick and M25. I'd say day traffic has more than doubled and very early morning (4am onwards) by factor of four or five. Two years ago if you heard a car at 4:00 am it was unusual enough to wonder what it was up to. Now there's one every few minutes. At 06:30 it's busier than it used to be at 08:00. It's enough that I've built an acoustic wall in my front bedroom, added secondary glazing and then added another layer over that. I'll end up moving though.
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
Ahh, that is interesting, I wondered if a car could take a very low level of charge. What size array do you have?

Without wanting to embark on thread hyjack, the new bypass is near Bexhill and effectively has turned my road (B2096) into a shortcut from Hastings / Bexhill to Gatwick and M25. I'd say day traffic has more than doubled and very early morning (4am onwards) by factor of four or five. Two years ago if you heard a car at 4:00 am it was unusual enough to wonder what it was up to. Now there's one every few minutes. At 06:30 it's busier than it used to be at 08:00. It's enough that I've built an acoustic wall in my front bedroom, added secondary glazing and then added another layer over that. I'll end up moving though.
Here's the charger:


See feature 10. We have 8 x 200W panels.

Yes, that's the third DC I was thinking of, the one that my GPS always takes me to on my way to Dover. Commiserations. GPS spoofer?

RAB
 
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RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
Disregarding the whole Economy & Pollution topic I wouldn't mind driving one of These to Work and Charge it in the Home Garage, however when you have to Charge it Off the motorway at more than 1€/kWh, thats where any Ambition to buy an EV dies for me..
They must be 100 octane electrons then! Ionity charge €0.79/kwh but you can pay a lot less than that. I can find fast chargers in France that charge as little as €0.16/kwh which is probably not much more than cost. Either way, most journeys don't require use of a fast charger and even at the higher rates, it's cheaper than hiring a car.

RAB
 

VAG fool

Member
The French do love a nuclear power station. EDF sell it as a "green" option alongside wind and solar renewables.
Blatant greenwashing.
 

Olerype

Member
I would say nuclear is green energy; it will come sooner or later just a matter of time and change og peoples mindset.

«Fuel» for EVs is in practical free here in Norway as long as you charge back home. Which the majority does. The daily driven average is 20 miles/day (the reason why it make no sense with big battery-packs)
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
I would say nuclear is green energy; it will come sooner or later just a matter of time and change og peoples mindset.

«Fuel» for EVs is in practical free here in Norway as long as you charge back home. Which the majority does. The daily driven average is 20 miles/day (the reason why it make no sense with big battery-packs)
Nuclear is certainly greener than coal!

Charging IS free at my local Tesco (Pod Point/VW). Big battery packs do make sense if you want to take an EV on holiday. In France at present, most fast chargers are located on Autoroutes (which I avoid if possible). You don't want to spend 6-9 hours on a slow charger (unless it's overnight)!

RAB
 

Olerype

Member
The point was just that 99,5% of the time, 20 miles range is sufficient for most people. For the yearly trip to France, it would cheaper to rent a car.

Similar for charging, 99,5% of the time you would slowcharge at home overnight. 5A at 230VAC would in most cases be sufficient.
 

RAB

Technical Specialist 1.2 TDI
The point was just that 99,5% of the time, 20 miles range is sufficient for most people. For the yearly trip to France, it would cheaper to rent a car.
Things might have changed, but the last time I tried to rent a car in the UK to take to France, I was completely unsuccessful! Longer range also means a longer useful battery life.

RAB
 
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