Uneven tyre wear

D

Darren C

Admin Team
Well, I had my second variable service today at Wayside Audi in MK and had a mixed day really.

Good points

  1. Second variable service including brake fluid change £305.58. (Not too bad for a main dealer if you ask me; though the car is over 3 years old now and discounts seem more readily available than they once where).
  2. Free MOT (courtesy of Audi UK) - £50.00+ saving.
  3. No major/minor faults, (with one exception) - sailed through MOT.
Bad point

  1. Uneven tyre wear at the front end.
In November 2007 I had the FSD & Weitec 30/30 treatment and four wheel alignment courtesy of Awesome. I was hopeful that the four wheel alignment would prevent any such issues, but either it wasn't conducted correctly, (which I doubt), or more likely the suspension has settled down now.

The results are:

Front Right - Outer 4mm / Middle 5mm / Inner 2mm*
Front Left - Outer 3mm / Middle 4mm / Inner 2mm*

*The above wear has been achieved in around 4000-5000 miles only on TOYO Proxies T1-S.

As this wear rate is on the innermost of the tyre - I must confess to actually not picking up on this issue and to be honest to the naked eye it doesn't look like it is wearing uneven.

If I am right and this issue is down to the suspension settling down, then I would advocate that anyone with modified suspension should check theirs out.

But "wear", (bad pun intended), to go from here? Another trip from MK to Manchester to Awesome at the cost of time/fuel/fees or do I take up my local Audi dealers offer of four wheel alignment at a nice price of £150.00 plus VAT...:eek:

Any suggestions on more local to MK/cheaper options would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Darren
 
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You can always get an alignment done at Stealth - a fair bit closer to you than Awesome.

However, as you have the lowered springs, uneven wear is inevitable I'm afraid.

Trouble is that as the car is lowered, the wheels will always splay out, such that the inner edges take more weight and there is no adjustment for this with the A2s limited geometry setup.

The only thing you could do is swap the rubber around if the tyres are non directional (but then you incur tyre fitter costs) or go for standard height springs.

Even so, it sounds like the tyres have worn very quickly - from about 7mm (when new) to 4mm on the outer edges is appalling - even Tanks not that bad!.

Cheers

Mike
 
I noticed the same quite severe wear on the inside of my front tyres when I completely changed my wheels & tyres recently. I asked the same question about it in the link below (towards the bottom of the page) and Spike replied (whose reply seems to have disappeared).

http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9568&page=9

He advised that even a 1 degree camber would result in a 4mm additional wear on the inside of the tyre and it is unlikely that we would be able to keep the wheels at exactly 0 degrees. I find it amazing that so much wear can be created from a small angle. I intend to rotate my front wheels & tyres with my back wheels & tyres after 3-5,000 miles, depending on wear.
 
It seems to be a fact that all modern fwd cars wear the insides of their front tyres. My Beetle did it, my wife's Golf does it (badly), and my (bog standard) A2 does it.

Just a fact of life.
 
MPG Lover said:
I asked the same question about it in the link below (towards the bottom of the page) and Spike replied (whose reply seems to have disappeared).
Click to expand...

The camber issue was way off topic for that thread so I removed the answer after you had time to read it. The info was covered in post 8 of the attached thread and is particularly relevant to 17" rims where the tyre is 205 or 215mm wide and the sidewalls are squat and very stiff. http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3754&highlight=negative+camber
I suspect lowered front springs will increase the negative camber effect, making inner edge tyre wear worse.

Cheers Spike
 
Doing the maths (and remembering basic geometry: tangent of an angle = opposite side divided by adjacent side) give the following:

For a 1 degree negative camber angle and a 215 wide tyre, this will give you a 3.75mm wear on the inner edge and a 3.2mm wear on a standard 185 section SE tyre.

Cheers,

Mike
 
Skipton01 said:
You can always get an alignment done at Stealth - a fair bit closer to you than Awesome.

However, as you have the lowered springs, uneven wear is inevitable I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

Thanks Guy's.

I wasn't aware that Stealth offered four wheel alignment - thanks Mike.

Having also owned a lowered Astra and Calibra I half expected this symptom to occur at some stage as I noticed a similar trait on these vehicles too - though not to the same degree of severity I might add.

I accept that this is a characteristic of lowering a car, but this seems very excessive given my low miles.

Is it worth the cost of a re-alignment check or should I just swap the fronts and rears and accept that I will need to re-boot every year or two?

Out of interest from a visual, the three shots below are of the OSF which on the face of it doesn't look too bad - hence why I hadn't spotted the wear before now.

2009_0306weartyre0021.jpg

2009_0306weartyre0022.jpg

2009_0306weartyre0023.jpg


Thanks.

Darren
 
Looking at that tyre, there's very little wrong, over and above a slight bit more wear on the inner edge.

Bear in mind that the measurement is taken over the middle 75% of the tyre (which is where the tread wear indicators are) and at this position, from the photos, there is minimal difference.

Stealth have the same gear as most Audi dealerships and can offer the same service at a MUCH lower price!

However, if the two fronts are wearing at the same rate (i.e. they are wearing out on the inside at the same rate), then alignment will be about as good as you can get, as camber isn't directly adjustable on the A2, it can only be evened up.

Maybe you should invest in a decent tread gauge and just get used to the idea that the fronts will wear unevenly. However, inner edges down to 2mm (which looking at the twi on the inside is more like 3.5mm) is excessive given that mileage. Maybe try a different brand in future?

Cheers,

Mike
 
Thanks Mike - I feel a touch more comfortable in the knowledge that although excessive - fundamentally there is probably nothing wrong. As you say both sides are wearing "evenly" even if uneven... :)

The Toyos are renowned for their grip but softer composition and when I bought the alloys, it was these or nothing. As a budget'ish tyre, I used to rate Falkens, so perhaps I will revert back to them in due course.

I might even swap front for rear with a view to replacing all four corners at the same time.

Out of interest the rears measured up at:

Rear Right - Outer 4mm / Middle 6mm / Inner 5mm
Rear Left - Outer 4mm / Middle 6mm / Inner 5mm

Thanks again.

Darren
 
Darren C said:
Out of interest the rears measured up at:

Rear Right - Outer 4mm / Middle 6mm / Inner 5mm
Rear Left - Outer 4mm / Middle 6mm / Inner 5mm

Thanks again.

Darren
Click to expand...

Sounds like a little under inflation to me.

I'll be fitting a new pair of tyres at the front before long, so will try something else for comparison purposes (had Goodyear, Nexen, Avon, Yokohama and Michelin on Tank and Toyo, Dunlop, Avon and Cooper on the Little Tank).

Cheers,

Mike
 
I run 35 psi all round Mike and check my pressures fairly regularly; though not quite the weekly check I must confess.

Do you suggest I run a higher PSI - 36 or 37? (This sounds quite high to me?!). Could just be the softer compound of the Toyo.

Cheers,

Darren
 
Skipton01 said:
Sounds like a little under inflation to me.

I'll be fitting a new pair of tyres at the front before long, so will try something else for comparison purposes (had Goodyear, Nexen, Avon, Yokohama and Michelin on Tank and Toyo, Dunlop, Avon and Cooper on the Little Tank).

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...



Thought you may have already fitted new fronts as they took a bit of a beating at CC last year lol

Cheers Phil
 
Skipton01 said:
It may be the softer compound, but I always run at about 36psi.

Found an absolute bargain for anyone running 205/40 R 17 tyres here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-205-40-17-Z...RL?hash=item260364521938&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

Looking at all the reviews, these are what I'm going to try next, as the tyre wear is as good as, if not better than Michelin by all accounts.

Cheers,

mike
Click to expand...

Good find Mike - a very competitive price.

I will up the PSI to 36 and see if there is any notable change.

Regards,

Darren
 
the grim reeper said:
Thought you may have already fitted new fronts as they took a bit of a beating at CC last year lol

Cheers Phil
Click to expand...

No, they were changed just after the Chatsworth Rally social last year, after Driveforward pointed out how bald they were (the inside thirds on both tyres were slick!!). They did take a battering at CC but there's still life in them yet.

I'll probably do them around the time of the Scottish social - mind you, having to change they tyres within a year is not brilliant!

Cheers,

Mike
 
I took your advice Mike and purchased my own depth gauge.

This morning I swapped the front and rears around and measured the 75% fascia of each.

OSF
Outer 4mm / Middle 5mm / Inner 3mm
2009_0308weartyre0001.jpg


OSR
Outer 5.5mm / Middle 6mm / Inner 5mm
2009_0308weartyre0002.jpg


NSF
Outer 4mm / Middle 5mm / Inner 3mm
2009_0308weartyre0003.jpg


NSR
Outer 5mm / Middle 6mm / Inner 5mm
2009_0308weartyre0004.jpg


Not as bad as first thought marginally. I have upped the psi to 37 all round and will monitor them over the next week or two. (Over inflation will be equally problematic too).

Darren
​
 
Those measurements are fine Darren and well within normal tolerances.

So, buying a tread depth gauge has saved you at least £50 in alignment fees!

Cheers,

Mike
 
Skipton01 said:
Those measurements are fine Darren and well within normal tolerances.

So, buying a tread depth gauge has saved you at least £50 in alignment fees!

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...

Yes, a good call on your part Mike - many thanks. (I am sure that the £50 saving will wing its way to Skipton autos in due course...;)).

I think the dealership where right to point it out, but until I had a good look myself, they did cause me a bit of a scare. (A potential windfall for them though if I had taken them up on their 4 wheel alignment @ £150.00 plus VAT).

Given the competitive pricing needed to attract customers these days, I sometimes think that dealers tend to look for the extra - apparently my wipers, (yes - wiper(s)) are smearing - £25.00 for the pair??? (Certainly not noticed any smearing myself, so I declined their offer).

Air and fuel filters where also recommended over the phone; with a K&N fitted and fuel filter fitted by them at the last service, (which should have been on record), I didn't take them up on this offer either.

Cheers,

Darren
 
Skipton01 said:
You can always get an alignment done at Stealth - a fair bit closer to you than Awesome.

However, as you have the lowered springs, uneven wear is inevitable I'm afraid.

Trouble is that as the car is lowered, the wheels will always splay out, such that the inner edges take more weight and there is no adjustment for this with the A2s limited geometry setup.

The only thing you could do is swap the rubber around if the tyres are non directional (but then you incur tyre fitter costs) or go for standard height springs.

Even so, it sounds like the tyres have worn very quickly - from about 7mm (when new) to 4mm on the outer edges is appalling - even Tanks not that bad!.

Cheers

Mike
Click to expand...

Excuse me for resurrecting an old thread here! We have just had to order a new set of tyres as the fronts had worn to the carcass on the inside edges (both tyres the same) - there was loads of life left over the rest of the tread so this was quite an upsetting waste.

We fitted Weitec 30/30 springs a while back, so from what Mike says, this could be why this set has worn so much quicker than previous sets. Given the cost of tyres, we are thinking that it would be cheaper in the long run to put standard height springs back in the car! To be honest, we never liked the deterioration in ride with the lowered springs, anyway...
 
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