Another one bites the dust, (pressed wishbone failure)

Something I suspected has been confirmed; pressed steel arms are the same left and right with the ball joint flipped over (edit, different ball joint).
That means that the hollow steel design is compromised, a design that keeps water out and allows it to drain on one side will be incorrect for the other side. If I had fit pressed steel I would have painted the outside. Then I would have put cavity wax inside while turning the arms. I would then have allowed the wax to settle / drain with the arms in their left right orientation, in effect making them sided.
I couldn’t get pressed at the time so I reluctantly bought cast. No prep needed, I just fit them. No issues with the hex but I think Lemforder supplied Audi?
 
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Little Dog said:
Something I suspected has been confirmed; pressed steel arms are the same left and right with the ball joint flipped over.
That means that the hollow steel design is compromised, a design that keeps water out and allows it to drain on one side will be incorrect for the other side. If I had fit pressed steel I would have painted the outside. Then I would have put cavity wax inside while turning the arms. I would then have allowed the wax to settle / drain with the arms in their left right orientation, in effect making them sided.
I couldn’t get pressed at the time so I reluctantly bought cast. No prep needed, I just fit them. No issues with the hex but I think Lemforder supplied Audi?
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Lemforder were certainly an original supplier of the cast arms, not sure who supplied original pressed steel ones. Whilst the pressed arms themselves are not handed, the ball joints themselves certainly are.
 
Sootywg said:
I intend to start this job today having soaked the bolts in penetrating oil for 48hrs. My fear is the stripped threads or snapped bolt. I don’t have a spare console so the job would go on hold until acquired, fortunately I can live with any delay though I will mis having it on the road. I will proceed cautiously and hopefully avoid needing to take the console off.
Which make of pressed steel arm did you go for and who had it in stock? The only ones I can find locally are Optimal from EuroCarParts at £91
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I live near Bath, a motor factors called APD, £70 for a pressed steel. Can’t remember the name, began with an A I think!! Good quality item though. Came with a ball joint too but I re used the existing one as I removed the three bolts that held it to the rotted arm.
 
I'm sure I've said this before.
The cost of making the pair of dies, to make the pressings would be high, so I think it's likely all are made on one or two die sets by one or two companies. It's not something that is in the sort of demand that would justify new investors is it?
So the only likely variable is the quality of the metal used. Unless the weight of items from different suppliers is different, then, they are all, probably, the same.
Mac
 
PlasticMac said:
I'm sure I've said this before.
The cost of making the pair of dies, to make the pressings would be high, so I think it's likely all are made on one or two die sets by one or two companies. It's not something that is in the sort of demand that would justify new investors is it?
So the only likely variable is the quality of the metal used. Unless the weight of items from different suppliers is different, then, they are all, probably, the same.
Mac
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There has long been speculation on who actually manufactures all of the pressed steel arms. We know that First Line own several brand names such as Borg and Beck. Febi as a brand is still independent but like most of the others they are actually ‘Part sourcing’ companies not manufacturers .
The geometric accuracy of the pressed steel arms is not down just to the pressings but the assembly and welding of the components (there is one hell of a lot of welding on these fabricated arms). Even if only one company pressed the arms, could there by multiple companies taking them and performing the assembly? Given the variation some have seen in the final products this seems a possibility.
 
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Lemförder or TRW would have been the OEM.

However, unfortunately all brands are saving money and many Lemförder parts today will not be the same quality as ones 10 years ago (a part destined for VAG but with the logo ground off).

I’ve not seen any new A2 wishbones, but if the part number/branding is lasered into the surface, it is just a part made by a generic factory and sold under many brand names. It might be great, or it might be terrible.

If you want to be sure you have the best, all you can do is buy several wishbones from the best brands you can, pick the best, and send the rest back.
 
a-zwo said:
Lemförder or TRW would have been the OEM.

However, unfortunately all brands are saving money and many Lemförder parts today will not be the same quality as ones 10 years ago (a part destined for VAG but with the logo ground off).

I’ve not seen any new A2 wishbones, but if the part number/branding is lasered into the surface, it is just a part made by a generic factory and sold under many brand names. It might be great, or it might be terrible.

If you want to be sure you have the best, all you can do is buy several wishbones from the best brands you can, pick the best, and send the rest back.
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I took the plunge last Monday, ordered a pair of lower suspension arms, (Triscan, pressed) from Autodoc. Decided to avoid the cheaper ones on eBay, some of the suppliers from Latvia were offering the same ones about 40% less. Autodoc is German (despite being listed as .co.uk) and the shipping was from Berlin (I believe) the items arrived yesterday with very good email tracking information. Very pleasantly surprised.
The quality looks good and would probably outlive the car but I will flood the inside with a rust preventative and maybe use a chip resistant paint on the outside.
 

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I have to say that I doubt there'll be the same amount of rot with the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia wishbone. They aren't box section, just quite substantial pressed steel, and a damn sight easier to fit.
Swapping the subframe is the downside, but then if yours is rotting, £40 quid for a a wishbone and about the same for a nearly new subframe is quite a good deal.

Screenshot_20240226-143112-832.png
 
Pie-eyedpiper said:
I have to say that I doubt there'll be the same amount of rot with the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia wishbone. They aren't box section, just quite substantial pressed steel, and a damn sight easier to fit.
Swapping the subframe is the downside, but then if yours is rotting, £40 quid for a a wishbone and about the same for a nearly new subframe is quite a good deal.

View attachment 119882
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This is my plan for the future - swap to newer subframe (without consoles for wishbone) and getting this type installed …
 
Bordos said:
This is my plan for the future - swap to newer subframe (without consoles for wishbone) and getting this type installed …
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I swapped mine over the Christmas break, with and A1 subframe. My old one had cracked and been welded in the past, and was mentioned every MOT test.
Alignment is way out after the swap, but the wishbones are so easy to install.
 
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Pie-eyedpiper said:
I have to say that I doubt there'll be the same amount of rot with the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia wishbone. They aren't box section, just quite substantial pressed steel, and a damn sight easier to fit.
Swapping the subframe is the downside, but then if yours is rotting, £40 quid for a a wishbone and about the same for a nearly new subframe is quite a good deal.

View attachment 119882
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Had a double take when I saw that wishbone. I thought it was MK2 Golf:

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I can confirm they don’t rot but the subframe arrangement is very different. Does the later subframe swap in easily to A2?
 
Pie-eyedpiper said:
I have to say that I doubt there'll be the same amount of rot with the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia wishbone. They aren't box section, just quite substantial pressed steel, and a damn sight easier to fit.
Swapping the subframe is the downside, but then if yours is rotting, £40 quid for a a wishbone and about the same for a nearly new subframe is quite a good deal.

View attachment 119882
Click to expand...
Why do you say ‘it is not a box section? Looking at the pics the construction looks very similar.
 
I thought that. Being pressed two halves are joined together to make the wishbone. Now there may be better sealing of the two halves but if the holes that can be seen in the picture expose the internal cavity then these too will eventually suffer from corrosion.

Smaller holes let less water in, larger holes drain and air dry better.

Going forward these arms will still last a considerable amount of time and given the bolt thread issues with the A2 consoles, provided all the geometry matches the A2 then this looks a long term solution.
 
audifan said:
I thought that. Being pressed two halves are joined together to make the wishbone. Now there may be better sealing of the two halves but if the holes that can be seen in the picture expose the internal cavity then these too will eventually suffer from corrosion.

Smaller holes let less water in, larger holes drain and air dry better.

Going forward these arms will still last a considerable amount of time and given the bolt thread issues with the A2 consoles, provided all the geometry matches the A2 then this looks a long term solution.
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Yep. Looking closer at @Pie-eyedpiper ‘s image you can see it is spot welded not seem welded but still with a box section void, however this arm looks different to the ones shown on the German forum on the PQ25 swap, which look like a single piece, deep pressed in a heavy gauge steel.
 
Yes those on the German site appear different although pictures not really good enough to say single skin pressing or two joined together. What I have noticed is there are several part numbers for the wishbones / track control arms for the A1 depending on PR codes so possible there is a version single skinned but without looking physically at each part number can not say, or are they just different bushing compounds.
 
Little Dog said:
Had a double take when I saw that wishbone. I thought it was MK2 Golf:

View attachment 119888

I can confirm they don’t rot but the subframe arrangement is very different. Does the later subframe swap in easily to A2?
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I think the picture @Pie-eyedpiper posted is basically a MK2 Golf wishbone. It’s from a Polo 6N which definitely isn’t PQ25. The pictures on the Wiki show Polo 6R wishbones.

I guess A02/A2 platform and PQ25 must be verify similar if the wishbones are compatible?

6R wishbones are single skin
 
Sootywg said:
Why do you say ‘it is not a box section? Looking at the pics the construction looks very similar.
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Sootywg said:
Yep. Looking closer at @Pie-eyedpiper ‘s image you can see it is spot welded not seem welded but still with a box section void, however this arm looks different to the ones shown on the German forum on the PQ25 swap, which look like a single piece, deep pressed in a heavy gauge steel.
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Absolutely I posted a picture of a wishbone from the internet, that is is a 6N Polo wishbone, by mistake. The one for the car is a 9N that is pressed and no welded box section.
This is the one, showing one piece, heavy pressed steel.
The part numbers for both sides are shown on the Wiki article.
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