Another one bites the dust, (pressed wishbone failure)

Sootywg

Sootywg

A2OC Donor
United-Kingdom
Having read many threads on this issue I have always kept an eye out for corrosion on the wishbones and always asked at MOT time for them to take particular note of examining the wishbones.
Despite this today my offside wishbone fractured whilst I was driving, fortunately it was at low speed and I limped home (less than 1mile)
Heaven knows what would have happened if It had gone on the motorway.
Having got it home there is no way I would drive it to a garage so the garage cost of replacement would now include a recovery vehicle!
So a DIY replacement is on the cards if I have the courage.
I knew this was a job that would come up sooner rather than later and I had always felt I would go for cast arms but most of the recent threads describe difficulty in fitting the cast ones due to oversize hex shafts.
I am anticipating the problems experienced by others in removing the arms because of corrosion of the bolts, plus problems reassembling, I really do not embrace the idea of having to remove the consoles as I will only be working with the vehicle on axle stands.
Given that the failed arm has been on the vehicle for nearly 20yrs I think pressed steel replacements will outlast the car especially if a little corrosion protection is undertaken before fitting?
ANYONE WITH PRESSED STEEL ARM THAT HAVE NOT BEEN REPLACED BE AWARE THEY WILL FAIL. even the youngest ones are approaching 20yrs old.
I know there are many threads on this subject but if anyone is up for giving me some advice before I purchase new arms and start to disassemble please chip in.
 

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My wishone failed on the same spot as yours. It's relatively "easy" job which can be done home. I did 2 cars this way and strongly recommend to get pressed wishbones instead cast iron. They are precisely made to fit the bushing with cast iron you will need to shave it a bit with the angle grinder to be able to fit them.

To remove your old wishbones spray a lot of lubricant between the gaps where pivot bolt go through wishone into the aluminum console and just try go up and down don't force it. Took me couple of days of soaking and slowly moving forward backwards. I managed to get out all 4 pivot bolts on both of my cars without breaking them or destroying threads. If your bushing is okay then you don't need to drop the consoles and just replace the wishones in situ with nice long F clamp or some heavy duty straps.

You will need 2 new pivot bolts with your new wishones
You can get them from audi for about 12£
 
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bix said:
My wishone failed on the same spot as yours. It's relatively "easy" job which can be done home. I did 2 cars this way and strongly recommend to get pressed wishbones instead cast iron. They are precisely made to fit the bushing with cast iron you will need to shave it a bit with the angle grinder to be able to fit them.

To remove your old wishbones spray a lot of lubricant between the gaps where pivot bolt go through wishone into the aluminum console and just try go up and down don't force it. Took me couple of days of soaking and slowly moving forward backwards. I managed to get out all 4 pivot bolts on both of my cars without breaking them or destroying threads. If your bushing is okay then you don't need to drop the consoles and just replace the wishones in situ with nice long F clamp or some heavy duty straps.

You will need 2 new pivot bolts with your new wishones
You can get them from audi for about 12£
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. Your experience is what I am hoping for, Is it expecting too much that 20yr old bushes do not need replacing?
I am hoping I can use sash clamps if they will get in there. When inserting the new arm into the rear bush do you lubricate it?
I assume from you last comment that the pivot bolts are single use. Why would that be I wonder?
 
Sootywg said:
Thanks for the input. Your experience is what I am hoping for, Is it expecting too much that 20yr old bushes do not need replacing?
I am hoping I can use sash clamps if they will get in there. When inserting the new arm into the rear bush do you lubricate it?
I assume from you last comment that the pivot bolts are single use. Why would that be I wonder?
Click to expand...
Yes you have to lube them with whatever you got soap water motor oil grease anything will help to push it through

Bolts have to be replaced because they are high tensile stretch bolts which stretch under tension and basicaly cannot be reused once they were stretched. I personally wouldn't trust 20 year old bolt which is quite critical holding the control arm in place and can potentially snap in half. If you need any help taking them out tools I used bolt number I got or fitting then back in just drop me a mesaege.
 
This is a well documented "feature" of the pressed arms. While I am glad you were travelling at low speed I am short on sympathy. You were "expecting" it to fail but pushed on perhaps endangering the life of those in your car and others on the road or pavement. Rant over.

I agree the pressed are easier to fit than the cast, advise to replace both sides and as you have said the car will be gone before those arms rust through unless you park near the coast..

You may want to consider getting replacement consoles with new bushes and fit the arms to those off the car. It would then be a case of swapping units for units plus the mandatory 4 wheel alignment. Once complete you could resell the consoles for someone else to do the same job on their car. Much easier to get them into a hydraulic press off the car.
 
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Most things have been covered, just a few points based on my experience:
Cast arms are best avoided in my opinion, cars run quieter on pressed steel and the ball joint can be replaced. Pressed steel was not available when I changed mine.
Bushes cannot be removed even with a press. A special Audi jig is also required. My press crushed my console and the bush didn’t move in the slightest.
There are no stretch bolts on an A2 suspension so they can be reused. However new ones, or old ones with a fresh coat of zinc, will slow down galvanic corrosion.
The consoles if they have to come off can have their position pinned. It avoids the need for 4 wheel alignment, if you can find somebody who can do it. To locate the pins though you may need to ream corrosion out of the console bolt holes.
There is a lubrication for inserting the arm into the bush. It is a VW product that becomes sticky as it ages.
I had no issues fitting cast arms but I bought Lemforder sold via TRW.
 
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audifan said:
This is a well documented "feature" of the pressed arms. While I am glad you were travelling at low speed I am short on sympathy. You were "expecting" it to fail but pushed on perhaps endangering the life of those in your car and others on the road or pavement. Rant over.

I agree the pressed are easier to fit than the cast, advise to replace both sides and as you have said the car will be gone before those arms rust through unless you park near the coast..

You may want to consider getting replacement consoles with new bushes and fit the arms to those off the car. It would then be a case of swapping units for units plus the mandatory 4 wheel alignment. Once complete you could resell the consoles for someone else to do the same job on their car. Much easier to get them into a hydraulic press off the car.
Click to expand...
A bit harsh to say ‘pushed on perhaps endangering the life of others’. I was certainly not ‘expecting it to fail’ There was no significant identifiable corrosion of the components either by me or the garage who was regularly asked to check. I was expecting to find signs of corrosion at some point in time and then replace them. How many even in our well informed membership change the control arms in advance of any evidence of need! Rant over
I stated in my original post. All owners with pressed arms should consider changing them because they are approaching 20 yrs. clearly they can corrode from within, without any external signs.
 
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That is exactly the problem they rot from the inside and can look reasonable externally but still be paper thin.

15-20 years is not a bad life expectancy especially on a suspension component that may not get cleaned other than road spray..

I understand the holes are for weight reduction but it would have been nice if some form of membrane could have been applied over these holes to seal out the moisture at the factory or even as a later service bulletin when in for service / repair at the dealers.
 
Little Dog said:
Most things have been covered, just a few points based on my experience:
Cast arms are best avoided in my opinion, cars run quieter on pressed steel and the ball joint can be replaced. Pressed steel was not available when I changed mine.
Bushes cannot be removed even with a press. A special Audi jig is also required. My press crushed my console and the bush didn’t move in the slightest.
There are no stretch bolts on an A2 suspension so they can be reused. However new ones, or old ones with a fresh coat of zinc, will slow down galvanic corrosion.
The consoles if they have to come off can have their position pinned. It avoids the need for 4 wheel alignment, if you can find somebody who can do it. To locate the pins though you may need to ream corrosion out of the console bolt holes.
There is a lubrication for inserting the arm into the bush. It is a VW product that becomes sticky as it ages.
I had no issues fitting cast arms but I bought Lemforder sold via TRW.
Click to expand...
Hear hear. Very well put in all.
(btw I used soap water to lubricate when inserting the hexagon into the bush hoping that the lubrication effect would go away after some miles in rain etc to mimic the effect of the Audi lube)
 
Indi said:
The manual specifically warns not to use oil (or other lubricant that doesn’t dry) when inserting the new wishbones into the bushes, as it stays slippery and can lead to the wishbones turning in the hex shaped holes, rather than the bushing deforming and doing it’s job
Click to expand...
I read that as well. I'm behind in doing my rear bushes but i came across P-80 Emulsion Temporary Rubber Assembly Lubricant 1 Litre a lubricant especially formulated for pressing rubber bushes that will dry out. Unfortunately in the UK I could only find it in 1L at c£20 and it has a limited shelf life so had to be aware of buying expired or soon expired ones. [in the US it is sold in smaller quantities]

Hunting around I came across P-80 in a smaller 220ml as a gel but only found one UK supplier: https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/power-t...porary-rubberlubricant-gel-220ml/p/ZT1144892S at £10.99 + c£5 p&p. I know it's not much less but avoids having to dispose of almost a litre. I did think about decanting into small bottles and selling it on here but with the cost of the bottles + p&p and limited shelf life and limited demand I thought there would be few takers. The gel also has a limited shelf life and I asked what the date was on their stock was before ordering.
 
Sootywg said:
Having read many threads on this issue I have always kept an eye out for corrosion on the wishbones and always asked at MOT time for them to take particular note of examining the wishbones.
Despite this today my offside wishbone fractured whilst I was driving, fortunately it was at low speed and I limped home (less than 1mile)
Heaven knows what would have happened if It had gone on the motorway.
Having got it home there is no way I would drive it to a garage so the garage cost of replacement would now include a recovery vehicle!
So a DIY replacement is on the cards if I have the courage.
I knew this was a job that would come up sooner rather than later and I had always felt I would go for cast arms but most of the recent threads describe difficulty in fitting the cast ones due to oversize hex shafts.
I am anticipating the problems experienced by others in removing the arms because of corrosion of the bolts, plus problems reassembling, I really do not embrace the idea of having to remove the consoles as I will only be working with the vehicle on axle stands.
Given that the failed arm has been on the vehicle for nearly 20yrs I think pressed steel replacements will outlast the car especially if a little corrosion protection is undertaken before fitting?
ANYONE WITH PRESSED STEEL ARM THAT HAVE NOT BEEN REPLACED BE AWARE THEY WILL FAIL. even the youngest ones are approaching 20yrs old.
I know there are many threads on this subject but if anyone is up for giving me some advice before I purchase new arms and start to disassemble please chip in.
Click to expand...

Just done this exact job on a 2005 tdi. I used heat on the threaded section to try and get the bolt to shift but no-it snapped. I have a spare set of consoles so I quickly unbolted the dud and fitted the replacement with the hexagonal shaft already pushed into the console bush. I used a pressed steel replacement as I didn’t want to fart around grinding away metal on a cast arm as I have done it before. Job took about an hour and I had to get the tracking re set afterwards. I am getting the old console drilled out and a helicoil fitted. I jacked up the car as high as poss and used good quality axle stands.
 
Chris Warren said:
Just done this exact job on a 2005 tdi. I used heat on the threaded section to try and get the bolt to shift but no-it snapped. I have a spare set of consoles so I quickly unbolted the dud and fitted the replacement with the hexagonal shaft already pushed into the console bush. I used a pressed steel replacement as I didn’t want to fart around grinding away metal on a cast arm as I have done it before. Job took about an hour and I had to get the tracking re set afterwards. I am getting the old console drilled out and a helicoil fitted. I jacked up the car as high as poss and used good quality axle stands.
Click to expand...
I intend to start this job today having soaked the bolts in penetrating oil for 48hrs. My fear is the stripped threads or snapped bolt. I don’t have a spare console so the job would go on hold until acquired, fortunately I can live with any delay though I will mis having it on the road. I will proceed cautiously and hopefully avoid needing to take the console off.
Which make of pressed steel arm did you go for and who had it in stock? The only ones I can find locally are Optimal from EuroCarParts at £91
 
If you feel big resistance try a little bit of a gentle heat with blow torch to let the threads slowly expand and contract which might help to break them up. In case they are really stuck or bolt is broken the entire console have to be removed. If you can't find any decent price locally just try online ebay or other vendors. There is a lot of choice. I've got NAPA from ebay. Ebay have promotion running on at the moment the one I got cost 51 right now, you can get 15% off with that promotional ebay code so it would cost you 43 for each or 86 both with free delivery.
 
The arm retaining bolt ‘cracked’ quite easily but the resistance was high to actually undo it, I thought easing it back and forth with extra penetrating oil might help but it actually seemed to seize even more, left a while and went back and the resistance was a constant high but not excessively so. It didn’t feel like it was grinding away the alluminium thread, so I persisted all the way and viola bolt out and looking OK ish.. I could see alluminium debris at the base of the first couple of threads, this must have taken the peaks of all the thread on the way out but it looks minimal.

Lunch

Now to get the pinion out of the rear bush. Can’t find my two leg puller to push it out from the rear so a little extemporising is required.
Back after lunch and drilled horizontally through the stub left in the rear bush, insert loop of a luggage strap into to the open end of the remains of the arm and thread a 5mm bolt through the loop. Pulling on the luggage strap induced some movement but more force was necessary so a pry bar on the strap, levered off the console made the stub pop out of the bush.
I will run a tap down the 12mm thread and inspect what if any the damage is.
Now ready to order the best replacement arms I can find.
Will I need P-80 lube? £20 seems a lot. Hoping washing up liquid will do the job. The old hex pinion measures 19mm across the flats. As best I can measure the hex in the bush is 18mm so quite a tight fit.
 

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I can”t believe how I am dithering whether to replace with Cast arms or pressed steel arms!
I will be replacing both sides so either is an option.
One moment I am saying replace like for like, keeping it the correct spec for the year but I do hate the look of the pressed arms probably because of the associated rot.
Cast ones appeal from both an aesthetics and engineering perspective but then I read of the problems getting them into the rear bush (can they really be any worse than the pressed ones?) Also some reports of cast ones being harsher/noisier. I cannot see the logic of this as noise transmission is through the bushes and provided these are correct and not ‘shorting’ to the frame how would they be noisier? Are cast ones stiffer?
Then there is the issue of non-replaceable ball joints!
Currently the only pressed ones available are the lesser makes and then fewer are in stock
Cast ones are more abundant, Meyle is my current preference but I have read the posts of the oversized hex spigot

I want to do the right thing by the little car. Can this therapy group help me with my indecision?

Geoff
 
Difficult decision. Like for like means one side can be done before the other allowing the job to be done say over two weekends with the car useable inbetween. Changing their type both need to be done the same time as they are never to be mixed and matched ACCORDING TO AUDI.

The pressed are more convenient with their replaceable ball joint and as such one part number fits both sides ( the ball joint is bolted to the other face to hand them ). Whereas the cast are unique per side.

End of the day even new pressed arms will probably outlast these cars now. So it is your choice as to what to fit, may even come down to what is available in your time frame.
 
audifan said:
Difficult decision. Like for like means one side can be done before the other allowing the job to be done say over two weekends with the car useable inbetween. Changing their type both need to be done the same time as they are never to be mixed and matched ACCORDING TO AUDI.

The pressed are more convenient with their replaceable ball joint and as such one part number fits both sides ( the ball joint is bolted to the other face to hand them ). Whereas the cast are unique per side.

End of the day even new pressed arms will probably outlast these cars now. So it is your choice as to what to fit, may even come down to what is available in your time frame.
Click to expand...
Agreed, good quality pressed ones should last a few years (not likely to be the 19+ years of the OEM)
The sticking point for me at the moment is relative availability of each and the variety in quality between manufacturers.
Odly (to me) the cast ones are actually cheaper.
The best quality of the pressed type seems to be through @A2-Doc with his ‘longlife’ arms. Not cheap and subject to import/shipping costs.
 
At least if you wanted to you could apply more protectant to the INSIDE of the pressed arms before you fit them. A good coating of anti stone chip provided you can cover all areas especially the welds I believe would be better than Waxoyl
 
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