6-Speed Gearbox

Once it's in place, you're welcome to try it out at the next social to see what you think (would need to check that my insurance covers other drivers first though).
 
I've been wondering about the 5th gear mod and in my mind I was never convinced that the .659 ratio would work for me. I regularly get into top gear between the traffic circles here in Milton Keynes but travel at around 50mph.
A recent very extended test drive in Jeffs car confirmed my suspicions. There is no way there is sufficient oomph at that speed to satisfy me and I concur with David (DJ 190) that a lower gear set is the more practical and useable option based on my style and conditions. However, I don't want to loose the 5th gear punch as it is now ... so ... this true 6 speed option is something that really interests me.
Descision time then - RNS-E or 6 speed mod?
Hmmm.

blue skies
tony
 
Hi Tony .... Big difference there ... RNS-E needs that Double -DIN dash and the unit should then set you back about £400 - £500. The 6 speed box is going to go well over £1000! The Euro is weakening against the £ all the time, so it is getting to be more of a bargain as time passes! Now, I have always been a bit disappointed with my RNS-E. Why? It is because of that pathetic inability to accept the full postcode! An £80 cheapo from Halfords does, but not a £1600 Audi-fitted unit? Surely someone could come up with modified software that gets round this let-down? I wonder if you might have been interested in my 0.681 ratio gear, when I have my 6-speed conversion completed? You would, of course, have been quite welcome to have tested out what it is like to have this ratio fitted, by having a test-drive of my A2!
 
For me, this would be a no-brainer; 6 gears all the way. But then, I've never been massively fussed about the more techy A2 mods. Whilst I'm always hugely impressed by CraigyB's skills and vision, and I can see the advantages of having such kit, stuff like RNS-e holds little appeal for me. Though I'm certainly no technophobe!
How much motorway driving do you do, Tony? I recently drove a TDI with standard gearing for the first time since having my own 5th replaced. On shorter drives, I was able to get into 5th regularly, and I'd forgotten how nice that is. However, when I took it onto the motorway, the high revs and associated noise just made me want my own car back. Having both would be incredible, and wouldn't age like RNS-e.

Just my 2 pennies! :)

Tom
 
You know, just reading this thread, I notice just how many comments there are as to the loss of useability at certain speeds when that 0.659 gear is fitted. I was considered an oddity to chose my 0.681 ratio .... I appeared to be the only person to use it! (However, just for interest, Vince tells me he has, in fact, fitted four of these gears!) As I have said before, this gear (0.681) gives a lower usable engagement speed, but also gives really considerable pulling power at higher speeds! With little effort, the car pulls past almost anything, if there is reason to do so, for safety purposes, of course! No, nobody seemed to be saying that there were any problems with their 0.659 gear then ... but now?
 
Slightly surprised by the sudden revolt against the .659 I must say! I think it is great. Oh well.
 
lol Dan, no, no revolt!
But there are so many traffic circles in MK.
And yes Tom, I fully agree, my car is much noisier and busy at speed than one with a .659, but I'm not on the freeway often
I might take David up on his offer to test his car, it would be great to visit him again.
But I think the logical answer, when funds allow, is to go for the 6 speed option. I'm quite looking forward to Mike's feedback.

blue skies
tony
 
Don't get me wrong, I love the 0.695 ratio. Longer fifth is one of the best mods I've got and I'd never go back, but we all know it's a compromise. I have to have one or the other, and I choose the 0.659 and would recommend it to those whom it would suit, but I have always understood why some (like Tony and Mike) have chosen to keep the gearing standard and others (like David) have decided upon a half-way-house.
Changing the 5th gear set came about as a result of researching a way of getting 6 gears, so was already a compromise before we'd really come to understand it. I'm not revolting against it, just voicing my enthusiasm for the ideal solution; both!


DJ 190 said:
No, nobody seemed to be saying that there were any problems with their 0.659 gear then ... but now?
Click to expand...

I might point out that it's you who's about to take out your 0.681 gear. I imagine that's because you've also found it to be a compromise.
The 0.681 just has its torque peak at different speeds. While cruising at 70mph, the 0.681 gear is already over the torque wave and will continue to drop off as you approach 80. The 0.659 ratio has roughly the same torque at 70mph, but on the opposite side of peak torque, so as you accelerate towards 80, the pull gets greater still. This obviously happens for the 0.681 at lower speeds, meaning you can change up earlier and peak torque is accessible at road-legal speeds. But, the 0.659 has further gains in fuel economy and reduced engine noise / long-term wear, which were its main attractions for me when I made my choice. For the driving I do at the moment, it's still the right choice of the longer 5th gears available, but, as Aidrian's example highlights, that may not always be the case. Similarly, if you were to make that trip to Italy in your A2 every month, you'd possibly want the 0.659.
Your gear set clearly suits you and is therefore the 'right' choice, but others have made their choice based on their priorities, which means they're also 'right'. It really is horses for courses.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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FYI John from the TDIClub forum (who has already ordered a kit which is currently in transit) reports that the 0.52 ratio (the ultralong one I mentioned earlier) isn't available yet, but they say it will be available in the summer. He thinks that the cogs are probably standard fit, but will confirm when his kit arrives.

I think he's going to try the 'without disassembly' installation method, so it will be interesting to see how he gets on.
 
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Cheers for relaying the info, Mike.

It would be great if they were standard fit. That way, should cruise not work with the 0.59 set, fitting 0.622 would be possible.

Tom
 
Tom, you have mention "torque wave" and "torque curve". As always, you show a good understanding of the operational characteristics of these cars. However, I wonder if you can clarify something for me, regarding what you have been saying? I assume that you have been referring to the standard A2, as supplied, and generating ~75 BHP.? I wonder if you could explain how the choice of gear-ratios would be influenced/affected if the A2 had been tuned to give a higher power output, say, 108 BHP.? Thanks, Tom (or, of course, any other A2OC members!)
 
I ran 0.659 without a remap for a period of 9 months or so, during which time you drove my car. The gap between 4th and 5th had to be consciously managed. The beauty of a remap from a longer 5th point of view is that the gap between 4th and 5th is closed a little, as the necessay torque is available lower down the rev range.
Take a look at your torque graph from Vince. You can see that post-remap, the output 'wave' is of an almost-identical shape, but just multiplied in the vertical.

Cheers,

Tom
 
There is a thread on the German forum about the EuroTuning 6 speed conversion, but I can't read German. I think they are mostly talking about a legal difficulty (re-certifying the new CO2 emissions of the modified vehicle). Even although it can only be improved.


http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?t=44013



There is also the following video of a 6 gear conversion by Kane (but I think this was done by swapping over a gearbox from a VW Polo). Ability to understand German would have been useful... (I just look at the pretty pictures instead ;))
http://fliiby.com/file/422706/p42x4t223y.html
 
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John from the TDIClub forum has just received his kit...

john.jackson9213 said:
Well it arrived today. Good packing job in a sturdy double fluted box. Weight was just over 13 lbs. Everything was in plastic bags (10 total). Counted teeth on all 4 gears, ratios are as ordered. Gear width matches my stock .756 gears. Machine work looks good from what I can see on the kitchen counter. Looks good so far.
Click to expand...

(Contrary to what I said earlier, he's actually got a Passat not a Jetta- me making incorrect assumptions!).
 
That's also good news, Mike. Quality is of paramount importance, of course.
Has John figured out whether the add-on can take the 0.622 or whether it's bespoke?

Cheers,

Tom
 
FYI shipping to the UK is £50, VAT is the normal 20%, so the total cost for a single kit is £1248. I am enquiring about the 0.62 6th for David.
 
Looks like adding in a 0.62 is not possible - standard cogs won't fit according to EuroTuning, and they don't make a 0.62. So the choice is fixed at 0.65, 0.59 (and 0.52 in the future).
 
MikeMarsUK said:
Looks like adding in a 0.62 is not possible - standard cogs won't fit according to EuroTuning, and they don't make a 0.62. So the choice is fixed at 0.65, 0.59 (and 0.52 in the future).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update, Mike. Let's hope that cruise still works with a 0.59 ratio, as this could be a deal-breaker for many members.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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