Webasto! Why won’t it work on its own…. VCDS enabled??

CrispyEdd said:
Hi, I'm so excited as my webasto fired up after changing the fuel pump under the car.
My car is non ac 2003 amf with a map by a friend. Engine on 00005 thingy.
Econ button works fine. Heres my vcds of today's joyful test.

The power of the webasto is just beautiful. I'm so happy.

I sat in and ot cooked as it did the full cycle up to 80 deg, it even kicked back in again as the coolant cooled down. Perfect 🥰

View attachment 116667View attachment 116668View attachment 116669View attachment 116670View attachment 116671View attachment 116672View attachment 116673View attachment 116674

Some photos are not in order but you'll get the picture
Click to expand...
It’s a great feeling when it finally works!!
 
PlasticMac said:
Here's my suggested explanation.
The early firmware did not include the ECON button status as an Aux Heater Shut Off condition.
Because the Webasto does not impose much load on the engine, there's no reason to, (I appreciate it uses fuel).
That would explain why it is missing from the early VCDS Lite .lbl, (lable), file, but included in the latest .cbl version.
The later firmware, has the ECON button status as an Aux Heater Shut Off, because the electric heater drawing 900 Watts, certainly does increase engine load, albeit via the alternator, which has to provide the significant value extra power.
Mac.
Click to expand...

PlasticMac said:
Here's my suggested explanation.
The early firmware did not include the ECON button status as an Aux Heater Shut Off condition.
Because the Webasto does not impose much load on the engine, there's no reason to, (I appreciate it uses fuel).
That would explain why it is missing from the early VCDS Lite .lbl, (lable), file, but included in the latest .cbl version.
The later firmware, has the ECON button status as an Aux Heater Shut Off, because the electric heater drawing 900 Watts, certainly does increase engine load, albeit via the alternator, which has to provide the significant value extra power.
Mac.
Click to expand...

Re the theory on the early firmware not including the econ button to switch off the webasto- this is defo incorrect as my 1281 (the first tdi firmware) certainly does operate the 2nd bit from the left on block 016 and this when set to 1 prevents the webasto operating
Also, why would the econ button be present on the manual heating controlled tdi’s as there is no aircon to switch off and Audi had the control panel from the petrol (without the econ button) to use if your theory was correct
I think it was an omission in the file plain and simple


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depronman said:
Re the theory on the early firmware not including the econ button to switch off the webasto- this is defo incorrect as my 1281 (the first tdi firmware) certainly does operate the 2nd bit from the left on block 016 and this when set to 1 prevents the webasto operating
Also, why would the econ button be present on the manual heating controlled tdi’s as there is no aircon to switch off and Audi had the control panel from the petrol (without the econ button) to use if your theory was correct
I think it was an omission in the file plain and simple


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Click to expand...
I wasn't suggesting the ECON button wasn't triggering the second bit, just that the second bit was not a shut off condition in the early firmware.
Hence it's not listed in the early lable file, as a shut off condition.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
I wasn't suggesting the ECON button wasn't triggering the second bit, just that the second bit was not a shut off condition in the early firmware.
Hence it's not listed in the early lable file, as a shut off condition.
Mac.
Click to expand...

No if the 2bd bit is a 1 the webasto doesn’t start on 1281


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The ECON signal is present at the ECU, and is linked to bit two on early firmware, but that link is missing on later firmware?
Mac
 
Are you stating that the econ button does not alter bit2 on the 1514 firmware ?


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depronman said:
How have you established that Mac ?


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Click to expand...
I did end my post with question mark ...
The hardware is not in doubt, as the ECON button controls bit two, in the Map 2.
If I've understood various posts, (and I may not have), with early firmware, the Webasto works, as it should, (you found this in post 207), on both Map 2 and 5.
It doesn't work on Map 5 on later firmware.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
I did end my post with question mark ...
The hardware is not in doubt, as the ECON button controls bit two, in the Map 2.
If I've understood various posts, (and I may not have), with early firmware, the Webasto works, as it should, (you found this in post 207), on both Map 2 and 5.
It doesn't work on Map 5 on later firmware.
Mac.
Click to expand...
Hi Mac,

So far the information regarding the Webasto kicking in on either firmware on both maps is from vehicles that left the factory with manual heating.

I have two climate control AMFs here that are now on the later 1514 firmware which I can confirm do not allow the Webasto to fire up when the specific conditions are met on map '5; this is due to being unable to get bit 2 to 0 regardless of pressing the ECON button on and off. Both Webasto assemblies automatically go through the start up sequence when on map '2 though.

I guess a possible solution being to revery back to firmware 1281 and see if the helps or get the map '5 data put into the map '2 location on the ECU, not sure if this is practical as this is far from my area of expertise. This is just my personal theory though and we could do with more AMF Climate Control vehicle owners to add their own findings to confirm my theory.

Thank you so much for the contributions to this thread, I know diesel isn't your usual tipple so your input in very much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
There doesn't seem to be any ECU coding to differentiate between AC and non AC cars, so I don't think the ECU knows which HVAC is fitted.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
There doesn't seem to be any ECU coding to differentiate between AC and non AC cars, so I don't think the ECU knows which HVAC is fitted.
Mac.
Click to expand...
Hi Mac,

I agree as I’ve been unable to find anything myself either. The only air-con adjustments I’ve come across are on adaption channel 060 within 46 CCCU, but think this is not connected and is just for the heated mirrors or something - I’ll have a play with the adaptions to see if that changes things at bit 2. I’ll. it getting this until this evening though. It’s probably a false lead. It worth checking I guess to eliminate the reason why my 2 climate control A2s won’t fire up whilst running map ‘5.

The answer is out there, we’ve just not stumbled across it.

What I have discovered though is that different remapping outfits look to code the engine slightly differently. I’ve got a report on my laptop from a Webasto enabled AMF engine and its engine coding is 10002 and not 00002 or 00005. The pop up hint doesn’t indicate what the proceeding 1 is for but know the map was added by Stealth Racing. I cannot confirm if the Webasto fires up in this vehicle as I don’t have it here and to be honest I cannot remember who’s A2 it was. It was early last year and cannot remember what I done yesterday.

Kind regards.

Ron
 
2work said:
Hi Mac,

I agree as I’ve been unable to find anything myself either. The only air-con adjustments I’ve come across are on adaption channel 060 within 46 CCCU, but think this is not connected and is just for the heated mirrors or something - I’ll have a play with the adaptions to see if that changes things at bit 2. I’ll. it getting this until this evening though. It’s probably a false lead. It worth checking I guess to eliminate the reason why my 2 climate control A2s won’t fire up whilst running map ‘5.

The answer is out there, we’ve just not stumbled across it.

What I have discovered though is that different remapping outfits look to code the engine slightly differently. I’ve got a report on my laptop from a Webasto enabled AMF engine and its engine coding is 10002 and not 00002 or 00005. The pop up hint doesn’t indicate what the proceeding 1 is for but know the map was added by Stealth Racing. I cannot confirm if the Webasto fires up in this vehicle as I don’t have it here and to be honest I cannot remember who’s A2 it was. It was early last year and cannot remember what I done yesterday.

Kind regards.

Ron
Click to expand...
Da do Ron Ron, (The Crystals, Phil Spector, 1960s).
Mac.
Edit: In case anyone wonders what on earth I'm on about, in Tom's post, he signs off as Ron.
Mac.
 
Last edited:
Today I’ve loaded up a spare ecu with 1514 standard Audi map
The code block 016 as a 1 at both ends of the string
It matter not if the ecu is codes to 00002 or 00005 still at the at both ends
One of them is correct as the ambient temp was 11degC but the other 1 at the opposite end is stating that the engine coolant is >80degC which is wasn’t (stated as 29degC in block 001)

If i revert to the other ecu running 1281 then only the ambient bit is set to 1 the engine coolant temp but is correctly set to 0

This is on a manual heating controlled car

Would be VERY interesting to get the same results from a climatron car particularly a car that was meant to be running 1281 from the factory eg upto and including 51 plate tdi’s

Paul


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Hi Paul,

I’ve already shown this information from at ECU running firmware 1514 back at this post:

Webasto! Why won’t it work on its own…. VCDS enabled??

Finally got round to changing ECU engine map back to 00002 at weekend - Webasto fired straight up this morning - makes such a difference after 4 winters of cold driving with it not working for one reason or another. Thumbs up for A2OC yet again.
www.a2oc.net www.a2oc.net

Although the pictures are just from the Project EUD A2, I can confirm that the exact same observations are seen in the Project OEM A2 also.

Firmware 1514
Map ‘2
IMG_8392.png


Map ‘5
IMG_8393.png


Although my Webasto wasn’t firing up on map ‘5, it does fire up on map ‘2 with it incorrectly identifying the coolant temperature above 80 degrees C/air temperature above 5 degrees C.

I’ve confirmed that my CTS is functioning perfectly at the ECU and at the instrument cluster. It’s starting to really point at the later firmware being an issue.

We could do with some input from a 1281 firmware user with climate control to understand if they’re are any differences. I’d be happy to test a firmware 1281 ECU in both my fleet but that’ll of course involved a few £s postage.

Edit: I can remove the lower grills (2x A2s) tomorrow and drop the ambient temperature sensor in a glass of iced water to see if I can get more relevant screen shots with the 1s to 0s. Still like to try an ECU with firmware 1281 here though as I’ve currently got 3x Webasto vehicles here. I’ve managed to get the webasto in the third A2 (not mine) working after many output tests and test runs, such a good thing when they finally kick into life.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
Last edited:
2work said:
Hi Paul,

I’ve already shown this information from at ECU running firmware 1514 back at this post:

Webasto! Why won’t it work on its own…. VCDS enabled??

Finally got round to changing ECU engine map back to 00002 at weekend - Webasto fired straight up this morning - makes such a difference after 4 winters of cold driving with it not working for one reason or another. Thumbs up for A2OC yet again.
www.a2oc.net www.a2oc.net

Although the pictures are just from the Project EUD A2, I can confirm that the exact same observations are seen in the Project OEM A2 also.

Firmware 1514
Map ‘2
View attachment 116726

Map ‘5
View attachment 116727

Although my Webasto wasn’t firing up on map ‘5, it does fire up on map ‘2 with it incorrectly identifying the coolant temperature above 80 degrees C/air temperature above 5 degrees C.

I’ve confirmed that my CTS is functioning perfectly at the ECU and at the instrument cluster. It’s starting to really point at the later firmware being an issue.

We could do with some input from a 1281 firmware user with climate control to understand if they’re are any differences. I’d be happy to test a firmware 1281 ECU in both my fleet but that’ll of course involved a few £s postage.

Kind regards,

Tom
Click to expand...

Hi Tom
Yes I’d seem your earlier post so I new the behaviour of 1514 on climatron
We’re both of your cars from the factory running 1281 or was one a 1281 and the other a 1514 ?

I really don’t understand why the webasto will kick in when running 1514 and codes to 00002 because the coolant temp bit is set to 1 which should prevent webasto operation (otherwise why have that bit present)

The strange thing is that on 1281 the coolant temp bit is set to 0 so it behaves exactly as expected
I’ve still got the ecu’s in the car so now understanding that on 1514 the coolant temp bit ‘may’ be a red herring I’ll try it again when the ambient temp is < 5 degC (I can’t be arsed with the iced water again to fool the ambient sensor)

Paul


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depronman said:
Hi Tom
Yes I’d seem your earlier post so I new the behaviour of 1514 on climatron
We’re both of your cars from the factory running 1281 or was one a 1281 and the other a 1514 ?

I really don’t understand why the webasto will kick in when running 1514 and codes to 00002 because the coolant temp bit is set to 1 which should prevent webasto operation (otherwise why have that bit present)

The strange thing is that on 1281 the coolant temp bit is set to 0 so it behaves exactly as expected
I’ve still got the ecu’s in the car so now understanding that on 1514 the coolant temp bit ‘may’ be a red herring I’ll try it again when the ambient temp is < 5 degC (I can’t be arsed with the iced water again to fool the ambient sensor)

Paul


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Click to expand...
Hi Paul,

As I said earlier, the JR EUD A2 was definitely running firmware 1281 before the ECU holiday. I cannot recall what firmware the AB OEM A2 was running as I don’t have the historical logs going back that far on my current laptop. I’ll plug the SSD into the working laptop to see if I can get the earlier historical reports, fingers crossed I can retrieve them. I’ll give that a go in the next few minutes.

I’ll have to re-confirm that the Webasto fires up with the CTS and ambient temperature status as 1. It’s not been cold enough the last few days to get another screen shot to present to this thread, which is why I’m thinking of doing the iced water method for experimental purposes.

Give me half hour and I’ll see if I can get to the OEM historical scans pre ECU holiday.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
2work said:
Hi Paul,

As I said earlier, the JR EUD A2 was definitely running firmware 1281 before the ECU holiday. I cannot recall what firmware the AB OEM A2 was running as I don’t have the historical logs going back that far on my current laptop. I’ll plug the SSD into the working laptop to see if I can get the earlier historical reports, fingers crossed I can retrieve them. I’ll give that a go in the next few minutes.

I’ll have to re-confirm that the Webasto fires up with the CTS and ambient temperature status as 1. It’s not been cold enough the last few days to get another screen shot to present to this thread, which is why I’m thinking of doing the iced water method for experimental purposes.

Give me half hour and I’ll see if I can get to the OEM historical scans pre ECU holiday.

Kind regards,

Tom
Click to expand...

Just pull the ecu from the cradle and read the firmware version on the label
That is the surest way to know

Paul


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Robin_Cox said:
My tuppence-worth is that missing out that bit was another example of Audi's efforts in eliminating un-necessary weight. I assume a 0 is heavier than a 1 in pixels? ;)
Click to expand...

Great debate went into ‘what is the weight of the internet’ and is it getting heavier with all the data that is now stored on it
Some boffins with nowt better to do came up with a weight and from memory the 1’s were slightly heavier than the 0’s

The owl internet weight in at around a 1kg so b****r all in it really

Paul


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