Webasto! Why won’t it work on its own…. VCDS enabled??
- Thread starter datsundrew
- Start date
2work
Well Known Member
Evening all,
I've just been out to the JR A2 to satisfy the question that Mac @PlasticMac regarding Engine 01 - Measuring Block 08 - Group 016.
Here's group 016 as above with the 00002 map (10000001:
Here's the same Group whilst back on the 00005 map (11000001):
The first and last number 1 in each of the above images is just fine and wasn't expecting the Webasto to kick in due to the ambient and coolant temperatures being above the required limit. You'll notice that there is a difference between the 2 values on each map though. Unfortunately VCDS doesn't provide a hint as what the second digit in from the left actually is.
Here's VCDS hint when hovering over the highlighted field:
Hopefully someone out there can take this information further to somehow enable us Webasto users to keep the fuller power map in the colder months without loosing the auxiliary heating.
Kind regards,
Tom
I've just been out to the JR A2 to satisfy the question that Mac @PlasticMac regarding Engine 01 - Measuring Block 08 - Group 016.
Here's group 016 as above with the 00002 map (10000001:
Here's the same Group whilst back on the 00005 map (11000001):
The first and last number 1 in each of the above images is just fine and wasn't expecting the Webasto to kick in due to the ambient and coolant temperatures being above the required limit. You'll notice that there is a difference between the 2 values on each map though. Unfortunately VCDS doesn't provide a hint as what the second digit in from the left actually is.
Here's VCDS hint when hovering over the highlighted field:
Hopefully someone out there can take this information further to somehow enable us Webasto users to keep the fuller power map in the colder months without loosing the auxiliary heating.
Kind regards,
Tom
depronman
A2OC Donor
I can do that but it involves getting the ecu back to me
Paul
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Howey
Member
Feel like I need to investigate why Mr blacks works perfect (when temperature allows) yet its set to 00005?
Also Mr Silver drives just the same with its original ecu which is set to 10005 when compared with a reworked full map of 00005 (webasto no longer firing due to glow plug fault registered) talk about a rabbit hole lol!
Also Mr Silver drives just the same with its original ecu which is set to 10005 when compared with a reworked full map of 00005 (webasto no longer firing due to glow plug fault registered) talk about a rabbit hole lol!
PlasticMac
Admin Team
It's odd, because the bit that's different with map 5, is not listed as a shut down condition, it's not listed at all.
@Howey
It would be really nice to see your version of Tom's Group 016.
Mac.
depronman
A2OC Donor
My take on it is that any 1’s in the block 16 code is an off condition for the webasto
Strange that x1xxxxxxxxx is the only one that is not documented in vcds, but just because it’s not documented does not mean that it is not an off condition
Just that vcds doesn’t understand what triggers the off condition. Personally I believe that x1xxxxxxxxxx is linked to the engine ecu coding.
If I get chance tomorrow I’ll recode to 00005 and check block 16 x1xxxxxxxxx
By prediction is that -
Engine ECU coding =00002 then block 16 is xxxxxxxxxx
Engine ECU coding =00005 then block 16 is x1xxxxxxxx
Webasto only fires up if block 16 as no 1’s present
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Strange that x1xxxxxxxxx is the only one that is not documented in vcds, but just because it’s not documented does not mean that it is not an off condition
Just that vcds doesn’t understand what triggers the off condition. Personally I believe that x1xxxxxxxxxx is linked to the engine ecu coding.
If I get chance tomorrow I’ll recode to 00005 and check block 16 x1xxxxxxxxx
By prediction is that -
Engine ECU coding =00002 then block 16 is xxxxxxxxxx
Engine ECU coding =00005 then block 16 is x1xxxxxxxx
Webasto only fires up if block 16 as no 1’s present
Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good Evening,
Me popping up in a diesel thread, what next, but think I can contribute something.
Note from Tom's screenshots the active label file is 045-906-019-AMF.CBL
CBL files are encrypted to stop Ross-Techs' competitors using there their hard work building these files. Earlier label files were LBL files and are not encrypted and thus readable. Unfortunately there is no lbl for the AMF in my (full) VCDS label directory. Thought I would look at other models that use the AMF engine but a dead end with no such files available, however there is a lbl file for the BHC engine available to view but in German.
The entry for Group 16 is
016,0,Zusatzheizung
016,1,Generatorlast
016,2,Abschalt-,bedingungen
; xxxxxxx1 = Kühlmitteltemp. > 80 °C ODER Ansauglufttemp. > 5 °C
; xxxxxx1x = Generator defekt
; xxxxx1xx = Batteriespannung < 9 V
; xxxx1xxx = Motordrehzahl < 400/min
; xxx1xxxx = Motorstart innerhalb der letzten 10 Sekunden
; xx1xxxxx = Geber f. Kühlmitteltemp ODER Saugrohrtemp. defekt ODER Endstufe Zusatzheizung defekt
; x1xxxxxx = Keine Anforderung (OFF/ECON aktiv)
; 1xxxxxxx = Außentemperatur größer 5 °C
016,3,Ansteuerung,der Heizelemente,x1 - Relais für kleine Heizleistung EIN\n1x - Relais für grosse Heizleistung EIN
016,4,Versorgungs-,spannung,Sollwert: 13.5...14.8 V
My German is zero so enlisting the help of Deepl we have
016,0,Auxiliary heating
016,1,Generator load
016,2,Switch-off,conditions
; xxxxxxx1 = coolant temp. > 80 °C OR intake air temp. > 5 °C
; xxxxxx1x = alternator defective
; xxxxx1xx = Battery voltage < 9 V
; xxxx1xxx = Engine speed < 400 rpm
; xxx1xxxx = Engine start within the last 10 seconds
; xx1xxxxx = Coolant temp. sensor OR intake manifold temp. defective OR auxiliary heater output stage defective
; x1xxxxxx = No request (OFF/ECON active)
1xxxxxxx = Outside temperature greater than 5 °C
016,3,Control of heating elements,x1 - Relay for low heating power ON\n1x - Relay for high heating power ON
016,4,Supply,voltage,setpoint: 13.5...14.8 V
I know little about diesels but have picked up there is not much difference between the AMF and BHC engines but would this be enough for a Webasto software rewrite, I think not. With this assumption the anomaly of the missing 7th bit description appears to be something to do with the ECON button, but why the line is missing I have no idea but maybe simply a typo omission, ask Ross-TECH.
Andy
Me popping up in a diesel thread, what next, but think I can contribute something.
Note from Tom's screenshots the active label file is 045-906-019-AMF.CBL
CBL files are encrypted to stop Ross-Techs' competitors using there their hard work building these files. Earlier label files were LBL files and are not encrypted and thus readable. Unfortunately there is no lbl for the AMF in my (full) VCDS label directory. Thought I would look at other models that use the AMF engine but a dead end with no such files available, however there is a lbl file for the BHC engine available to view but in German.
The entry for Group 16 is
016,0,Zusatzheizung
016,1,Generatorlast
016,2,Abschalt-,bedingungen
; xxxxxxx1 = Kühlmitteltemp. > 80 °C ODER Ansauglufttemp. > 5 °C
; xxxxxx1x = Generator defekt
; xxxxx1xx = Batteriespannung < 9 V
; xxxx1xxx = Motordrehzahl < 400/min
; xxx1xxxx = Motorstart innerhalb der letzten 10 Sekunden
; xx1xxxxx = Geber f. Kühlmitteltemp ODER Saugrohrtemp. defekt ODER Endstufe Zusatzheizung defekt
; x1xxxxxx = Keine Anforderung (OFF/ECON aktiv)
; 1xxxxxxx = Außentemperatur größer 5 °C
016,3,Ansteuerung,der Heizelemente,x1 - Relais für kleine Heizleistung EIN\n1x - Relais für grosse Heizleistung EIN
016,4,Versorgungs-,spannung,Sollwert: 13.5...14.8 V
My German is zero so enlisting the help of Deepl we have
016,0,Auxiliary heating
016,1,Generator load
016,2,Switch-off,conditions
; xxxxxxx1 = coolant temp. > 80 °C OR intake air temp. > 5 °C
; xxxxxx1x = alternator defective
; xxxxx1xx = Battery voltage < 9 V
; xxxx1xxx = Engine speed < 400 rpm
; xxx1xxxx = Engine start within the last 10 seconds
; xx1xxxxx = Coolant temp. sensor OR intake manifold temp. defective OR auxiliary heater output stage defective
; x1xxxxxx = No request (OFF/ECON active)
1xxxxxxx = Outside temperature greater than 5 °C
016,3,Control of heating elements,x1 - Relay for low heating power ON\n1x - Relay for high heating power ON
016,4,Supply,voltage,setpoint: 13.5...14.8 V
I know little about diesels but have picked up there is not much difference between the AMF and BHC engines but would this be enough for a Webasto software rewrite, I think not. With this assumption the anomaly of the missing 7th bit description appears to be something to do with the ECON button, but why the line is missing I have no idea but maybe simply a typo omission, ask Ross-TECH.
Andy
Last edited:
depronman
A2OC Donor
Andrew that is indeed a good theory and easily tested by monitoring block 16 and switching the econ button on and off and seeing if the x1xxxxxxxxx changes to xxxxxxxxxx
I’ll add this to the ‘to do’ list for tomorrow
Cheers Paul
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2work
Well Known Member
Evening Andy,
Great detective work. I’ll nip back outside in the next hour once the boys are settled to see if tapping the Econ button on the 00002 map presents the 1 in the same place as the anomaly on map 00005.
Give me an hour or so and I’ll report back.
Kind regards,
Tom
Great detective work. I’ll nip back outside in the next hour once the boys are settled to see if tapping the Econ button on the 00002 map presents the 1 in the same place as the anomaly on map 00005.
Give me an hour or so and I’ll report back.
Kind regards,
Tom
CrispyEdd
Member
By twin towers you can see the two capacitors, they are fixed with old sealant the goo at the bottom, this I'm told is prone to cracking and drying up.
The little white cube to left of heat transfer plate (which had a screw in) is a culprit for missing reading the coolant temp. I guess it measure the resistance of the metal as it warms indirectly from the contact in the coolant.
2work
Well Known Member
Hi again Andy,
Boys settled and fast asleep so just popped outside with the laptop. I can confirm your finding is indeed correct.
As a reminder, this is Group 016 on the working 00002 map:
All looking good and would fire into life is the temperatures were cold enough as it has been since reverting to the 00002 map.
Here's the same 00002 map but with the ECON button pressed:
No we just need to understand why the 00005 map incorrectly detects the ECON button as active/on.
Kind regards,
Tom
depronman
A2OC Donor
I don’t think there is any point in trying to understand why the 00005 coding cause the 2nd bit to always be a 1 irrespective of the state of the econ button
Even if we new what was causing this behaviour on the 00005 coding the only way to fix it is to modify the firmware in the ecu
So, if we have to do this then a reloading of the maps which exist on code blocks 00002 with the map files that currently reside on code block 00005 is the simpler answer
I’m willing to do this for anyone running my files, all I ask is that the return postage costs are covered
However the map on the 00002 code blocks is a milder remap more suited to the winter weather conditions, so personally I’m not seeing any problems with having a winter map (00002) with webasto and a rest of year full map (00005) without webasto
Obviously there may be the odd member that doesn’t have the ability to recode their ECU and the option to have the full power map on 00002 may then be the best option and I’m more than willing to do this as per above
Paul
Even if we new what was causing this behaviour on the 00005 coding the only way to fix it is to modify the firmware in the ecu
So, if we have to do this then a reloading of the maps which exist on code blocks 00002 with the map files that currently reside on code block 00005 is the simpler answer
I’m willing to do this for anyone running my files, all I ask is that the return postage costs are covered
However the map on the 00002 code blocks is a milder remap more suited to the winter weather conditions, so personally I’m not seeing any problems with having a winter map (00002) with webasto and a rest of year full map (00005) without webasto
Obviously there may be the odd member that doesn’t have the ability to recode their ECU and the option to have the full power map on 00002 may then be the best option and I’m more than willing to do this as per above
Paul
depronman
A2OC Donor
It would be good if someone with the electrical heater could confirm the block16 2nd bit behaviour with the econ button
I believe it to work the same as webasto but it would be great to have this as a known not an assumed fact
Cheers. Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I believe it to work the same as webasto but it would be great to have this as a known not an assumed fact
Cheers. Paul
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2work
Well Known Member
Evening Paul,
I would prefer to run the full map all year round in both the fleet due to them having non-standard gearboxes. I’ll have to somehow get both my ECUs back to you to resolve this issue. I’ll be in touch via PM when I work out a plan to have both A2s off the road for a few days to keep the postage costs down. Right now probably isn’t the best time to do this with Royal Mail well into their busiest time of year; It’d be devastating if 2x ECUs went missing in the festive mail. Maybe a task well agead of the Easter chill.
Kind regards,
Tom
depronman
A2OC Donor
Totally agree, I would not consider doing anything until the new year when the carrier firms are back to normal
I would also insist that any carriers losses are at the ecu owners risk and would always recommend tracked or at a minimum signed for carriers
Paul
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PlasticMac
Admin Team
So, we could consider adding the line:
016,0,Auxiliary heating
016,1,Generator load
016,2,Switch-off,conditions
; xxxxxxx1 = coolant temp. > 80 °C OR intake air temp. > 5 °C
; xxxxxx1x = alternator defective
; xxxxx1xx = Battery voltage < 9 V
; xxxx1xxx = Engine speed < 400 rpm
; xxx1xxxx = Engine start within the last 10 seconds
; xx1xxxxx = Coolant temp. sensor OR intake manifold temp. defective OR auxiliary heater output stage defective
; x1xxxxxx = No request (OFF/ECON active)
1xxxxxxx = Outside temperature greater than 5 °C
016,3,Control of heating elements,x1 - Relay for low heating power ON\n1x - Relay for high heating power ON
016,4,Supply,voltage,setpoint: 13.5...14.8 V
To the AMF lbl file, then at least VCDS will, (and would have long ago), tell us what the problem is.
It would be better to find out why, and maybe correct it, than hard coding it out, in my opinion.
I'll study the electrical schematic for clues tomorrow.
Since @Howey seems to have a working Webasto, on Map 5, let's wait and see if he can confirm his reading of Group 016.
With a bit of digging, we might be able to avoid mass ECU mods.
Thanks to @Andrew for finding the key to the mystery. These lbl files really are a great source of info.
Mac.
2work
Well Known Member
Hi Paul,
Always tracked and insured for leave if mind. We’ll pick this up in the New Year Sir.
Kind regards,
Tom
PlasticMac
Admin Team