Project: Anti-roll-bar for the front axis. Discussion!

Hi all im re opening this thread as i asked Manuel if it was possible he had any more of these excellent front and rear roll bar kits that he offered us last year as vonnie wants a set for her car. He does not have any but the interest from the German forum is such that H&R are going to do another run of kits.
Please read the first page for more info on the kits and the only new info is the change of price it is now €345 plus shipping. If interested leave a pm for A2-D2

i have been out in Robins tdi90 with the kit fitted and it is fantastic- i believe Hotstuff has them fitted now and was really surprised just how good they are. My set is being fitted soon whilst the car is striped down for other work. Cheers mike
 
My kit is going on on Thursday.

So that's
- Front and rear ARB
- new 6y rear Eibach springs to stop the drop at the back
- Meyle HD Droplinks
- Bilstein B8
- full set of superpro bushes; ARB, dogbone, steering column, rear axle.

Only thing currently missing in the pile of gear is another wishbone rear bush and I'll do that, too. This is going to be very interesting indeed, I expect it to take around 8 hours of work.

- Bret
 
€345 plus shipping. !!!

That is GREAT value.

I would have a kit if I was in a position to buy one, but I can't at the moment.

Steve B
 
A2Steve said:
It will feel like a new car after all that work. Can I ask where you managed to find Eibach springs? I thought they had been discontinued for tge A2?
Click to expand...

6Y shows up as Skoda Fabia when doing a quick search for Eibach online if that helps.
 
I have original A2 Eibachs currently on, but the rear springs are too short. The original and 6y springs have been tested for their spring rates and official paperwork is now available to say that there's no issue replacing the standard Eibach rears with the ones from the 6Y kit, because the springs rates are the same at the rear.

Since I have to have the paperwork - the German paperwork, even though I'm in Finland - I can now do this legally and get it signed off. They'll also measure the distances wheel-centre - arch underside and put them in the part 1 of the registration documents which I have to have in the car.

Front springs will remain for the moment. I'll start another thread about Eibach springs.

- Bret
 
a2sumo said:
Hi all im re opening this thread as i asked Manuel if it was possible he had any more of these excellent front and rear roll bar kits that he offered us last year as vonnie wants a set for her car. He does not have any but the interest from the German forum is such that H&R are going to do another run of kits.
Please read the first page for more info on the kits and the only new info is the change of price it is now €345 plus shipping. If interested leave a pm for A2-D2

i have been out in Robins tdi90 with the kit fitted and it is fantastic- i believe Hotstuff has them fitted now and was really surprised just how good they are. My set is being fitted soon whilst the car is striped down for other work. Cheers mike
Click to expand...

Reposting Mikes original re-opening of this thread so that it doesn't get lost in all the discussion on springs
 
Mr Angry said:
hi chubby,

in what way do these kits make a difference?

cammy
Click to expand...
Hi Cammy.

The design purpose of anti-roll bars is that they have no impact on the spring strength when the car is being driven in a straight line. But they stiffen up the springs when cornering. So you get the best of both worlds, normal spring rates when driving normally and stiffer spring rates and so less roll (hence the term anti-roll bars) when cornering.

that is the sole purpose of anti roll bars. (And they are great for that).

Main fact I once bought an A2 FSI Storm that had the anti-roll bar removed by a previous owner and I couldn't really tell the difference. They only affect the handling when cornering.
Steve B
 
Sheesh, this is good.

FSDs swapped for B8s and the ride is much, much better. Very controlled, minimal roll, especially with the ARB at the rear. Feels slower round a corner, sure as hell isn't!

The rear was a pain to do and we didn't do the front (took 4.5 hours to do the shocks only front and rear and add teh rear ARB). Strongly, strongly recommended to anyone.

- Bret
 
I fitted the ARB's to humpy a couple of months ago after I drove Robins A2 at the curry evening. I can report that the car is definitely so much better to drive. I "punish" my car and it keeps on asking for more ...
it feels so much more solid and planted, almost begs to be thrown around - and I oblige :eek:.

For anyone considering upgrading to these ARB kits - it really is a no brainer if you prefer flat precise cornering and the taught feedback they provide. Coupled with competent suspension set-up and good quality tyres the A2 is transformed!
I've got another kit in stock that is to be fitted to a rather special A2 ;).

blue skies
tony
 
A2 Cars said:
I fitted the ARB's to humpy a couple of months ago after I drove Robins A2 at the curry evening. I can report that the car is definitely so much better to drive. I "punish" my car and it keeps on asking for more ...
it feels so much more solid and planted, almost begs to be thrown around - and I oblige :eek:.

For anyone considering upgrading to these ARB kits - it really is a no brainer if you prefer flat precise cornering and the taught feedback they provide. Coupled with competent suspension set-up and good quality tyres the A2 is transformed!
I've got another kit in stock that is to be fitted to a rather special A2 ;).

blue skies
tony
Click to expand...

Hello Tony!

Is this something you would recommend to me. We spoke about upgrading my A2 with new suspension from Sweden, you remember my spec that I was looking for in my A2.

Alan
 
I honestly don't see the need for improved cornering. Is the need for upgraded ARB bigger on card without S-Line suspension because I don't feel any body roll in my A2.
I have stiff springs but worn out shocks. I have a set of Koni FSD and Wietec springs (now rebranded to ST Suspension) waiting to be installed. It is not a big deal to upgrade the front ARB, if it is worth while.
 
let's put it this way: the cornering ability on mine is back to where it was 165000kms ago. And better. The ride is much better, too, because the B8s damp nicely, where the FSDs were starting to fail and - this is important when using FSDs with lowering springs - were continually pushed into their harder regions when I loaded the car.

So with 1 person, it was Ok. 3-up, OK. 3up and lightly loaded - not bad. 3 up and fully loaded: awful. Crashy, bumpstop city. FSDs are not made for lowering springs and should not be used with them.

The car is back to where it should be. Planted, with steering that actually weights-up during a corner and is fun to drive.

That's without the bush changes, either; there are lots of those waiting, and this is also without having changed the front ARB. This is the single biggest improvement I think I've ever made to the A2. Better than FSDs, better than Eibachs, better than switching to 14kg 15" wheels. This, by the way, feels more planted now than it did running 215/40R17s....Others report far lower sensitivity to wind with the rear ARB.

When you go up towards Moss from Bengstfors (just off the E6), there are lots of interesting roads. With the stiffer springs in the A2, it feels OK. But the car doesn't breathe with the road in any way, it tries to stamp the road into submission and especially with FSD, that is not possible. The control is not there. There is some roll which is dealt with to a certain extent by the stiff springs, but as soon as you hit a bump mid-corner on the side that is loaded, instability is there.
The original shocks are in comparison wooden. I was with one of the dutch guys in Eindhoven in November and was really surprised how much body movement there was in my car compared to his. Mine is now sport dampers - with shortened pistons - and sport springs. It hasn't lowered any more, by the look of things - 315mm wheel centre to arch lower edge - but it's extremely harmonious and I'm really glad I did it. The Rear ARB is a bonus; the harmony of the setup is simply awesome.
It reminds me now of the 2015 Focus I drove recently in the UK, which just seemed to shrink around me and tell me "go for it!". Over a speed bump, the body doesn't shake afterwards in any way, it's just "up, drop". Manholes are a minor dip, before I would avoid them. I will go out for a real drive tomorrow first thing before I go back to the garage where I fitted this stuff, as I will re-check some bolts. But all indicators right now tell me that the 30km I intend to drive, in an area full of rally stages, is going to be awesome fun. My daughter is also a fan; the roll is completely gone and so she doesn't slide around so much.

It's not really a surprise that this combination is extremely good; this is the setup which is sold as B12 on other cars....

- Bret
 
I do not agree with your statement that FSDs are not made for lowering springs and should not be used with them.

Do you have any proof of that statement or a reference to any documentation? Or it it only based on your own experience?

Regarding the ARB upgrade I might add it to the project as well, when I am swapping the rest, even if I don't foresee any road racing with the A2. :)
 
My own experience with FSDs is 100000kms over seven years.

I know no-one across any of the A2 forums that currently recommend FSDs over Monroes, Sachs, B4s or B6 / B8.

Koni's Quality control was awful. The consistency between batches is crap (feel free to read up on that one across the forums). The failure rate of FSDs in real life is higher than any other damper I've heard of, mainly because I've heard of several damper failures here and several replacements over in central Europe. I know of no other damper where this is the case. That aside, the consensus is that FSDs *will* raise the ride height of the car by around 15-20mm, that they work best with a little pre-compression, and that they're not OK with serious lowering. You are limiting the freedom of the damper to move at the top end, limiting the suspension travel itself because of the physical damper size. This is why B8s should be used >20mm lowering - physical size. So by pushing the piston in permanently, you're limiting the ability of the damper to work correctly and effectively.

Regarding the "not made for lowering"; Once upon a time, the statement "FSDs are for max 35mm lowering" was on the Koni site. I think I can dig it out of the German A2 forum, because I remember checking it against the 30mm the Eibachs were supposed to give and it was supposed to be OK. The quote from Schnelletrecker from the dawn of time (2007) is here: http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?4807-In-search-of-comfort-Koni-FSD/page2 . Post 53 from that thread has more information and links, including this one: http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthrea...mpers-coilovers-and-airride&p=45498#post45498 which is rather good. That thread is also worth reading.

There is no longer a lifetime warranty on FSDs, and anyway, you'll have to have them professionally installed if you have a warranty claim, and even if you do, you'll need to send them back to Koni in Holland for them to check over.

Pictures of mine will be online soon. Rust on the outside of the cylinder at the rear, flaking paint on both lower mounts at the rear. Flaky spring mounts at the front on both sides; another 12 months and they would be at failure point.

I cannot recommend FSDs and I would not recommend combining them with anything other than stock (or similar) springs if you want to take advantage of their functionality.

- Bret
 
It is good to see that when there are two strongly opposing views like this you are both keeping it factual and not resorting to an unpleasant argument.

It is sometimes better when we have opposing views, rather than mutual backslapping, as long as it is a heated debate like this rather than just "heat" if you know what I mean.

So thanks guys.

Steve B
 
The only thing I objected to it your harsh statement that FSDs are not made for lowering springs and should not be used with them.

Your reference to a Koni statement that "FSDs are for max 35mm lowering" state something else. I will never lower my car below that level, after-all the A2 is just a Shopping Trolley, not a Low Rider.
:)


 
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