2 stroke oil in diesel...anyone tried it?

I've used 15 ml of 2 stroke oil in the last 2 tankfulls and it does seem to make the engine quieter.
I'm convinced with the arguments that a little bit of oil that is formulated for combustion (2 Stroke oil) will improve lubrication in some key areas. I'm less convinced that a specific spec is that critical - I have read the threads and the "experiments" but they are not totally scientific. I can see that there may be an "optimum" formulation of semi-synthetic, but that is far from saying any other spec is no good at all. I reiterate that all 2 stroke oils are made to be burnt, and provide some lubrication. There is conflicting evidence here - someone has stated that German taxi drivers have "used this for years". Have these high spec oils been around that long? And can you imagine German taxi drivers paying extra for a certain specification? I can't. So I used 2 stroke oil from Morrisons - £2 for 500 ml. As I said - the results have been encouraging so far. So my opinion would be don't stress too much about whether this or that oil is suitable or not. In a ratio of 150 ml to a tankful (1:200), I doubt any harm will occur. So just give it a try.
 
I've no scientific evidence but would suggest the combustion temps in a diesel are significantly higher than those in a petrol engine. Its therefore reasonable to assume a 2T oil which produces less residue when burnt in lab tests is less likely to add to carbon build-up on the diesel injector nozzles etc. I can't see it being an issue if you just dose the odd tank full but for high mileage use I'd always go with the recommended spec.

Cheers Spike
 
Just to add another dimension to the discussion, has anyone considered the fact that in these days of reduced emissions and the aim to have cleaner exhaust fumes, Putting lubricating oil (which is what 2 stroke oil is after all) Must KILL the emissions. I also wonder what it does to MOT exhaust tests (on those cars that are subject to those tests).
And before anyone makes the point that Diesel is also an oil, I would point out that it is refined to make it burn fully, 2 stroke oil is not (that is the whole point of two stroke oil), as anyone who has ever seen a two stroke car / motorbike etc. going along with a cloud of bluey white smoke after it!

Don't get me wrong, I am no conservationist, I think that there is too much emphasis on how the car is "damaging the atmosphere".

And I will give this a try too, just to see how good the results are, I can imagine that they are very good when you think about what it is doing. After all think about how two stroke oil works, it is so lubricating that effectively you have no oil (and no sump even) in the engine and it keeps everything lubricated.

But it was just a thought!

Steve B
 
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All I can say is when my car was tested last year the MOT tester was amazed how low the readings were for a non DPF diesel with a high mileage, which I can only put down to use of 2SO. This year the readings were higher because getting my wife (who now uses the car) to add 2SO is a struggle (as in bl88dy impossible), "can't see the point...."
 
Adrian888 said:
All I can say is when my car was tested last year the MOT tester was amazed how low the readings were for a non DPF diesel with a high mileage, which I can only put down to use of 2SO. This year the readings were higher because getting my wife (who now uses the car) to add 2SO is a struggle (as in bl88dy impossible), "can't see the point...."
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HI,

That is good to know, but perhaps it might be an idead not to put any two strokle oil in the tank just before the MOT just in case the emissions are skewed by it at all, especially if the results are border-line.

What do you think?

Steve B
 
Adrian888 said:
All I can say is when my car was tested last year the MOT tester was amazed how low the readings were for a non DPF diesel with a high mileage, which I can only put down to use of 2SO. This year the readings were higher because getting my wife (who now uses the car) to add 2SO is a struggle (as in bl88dy impossible), "can't see the point...."
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If you drive harder and/or used the car for longer journeys than your wife does, these factors would influence the emissions readings.

Cheers Spike
 
My wife also drives it hard, probably more so than me and it gets used wherever possible for any trip for which we do not need the Freelander (which means most weekends we are not using the caravan).
 
chubbybrown said:
Would the emissions not be better as there is less carbon build up?
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Yes, that is true, The reduction in carbon may help that but if you are burning oil (as you are with the 2 stroke) that burning oil is pollution!!

As I say, I am still going to try it because that pollution is negligible.

I also remember in my younger years having a two stroke scooter and the smoke from that was dreadful, also there were two stroke cars with HUGE plumes of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust (no references to the ark and dinosaurs please).

Diesel is fuel oil and burns efficiently, 2 stroke oil is lubrication oil and burns terribly with lots of smoke and so it shows up a tiny amount in emission tests.

I think that the ratio being used here is much smaller than in a two stroke engine so it really isn't much, but .....

Just trying to spark a debate :)


Steve B
 
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A few comments to add to the debate -
. Diesel does not burn clean, it produces soot, hence the use of particulate filters (DPF)
. It's likely the use of 2T oil became popular as the level of sulphur, a natural lubricity agent, has dramatically reduced over the years. This lack of lubricity was a big problem with the early common rail fuel systems.
. I can't see any logic to indicate the addition of 2T oil in tiny quantities can improve the combustion process but it does increase fuel lubricity.
. Carbon build-up can partially mask or block the injector nozzles which in turn alters the spray pattern to the detriment of the combustion process

Cheers Spike
 
spike said:
A few comments to add to the debate -
. Diesel does not burn clean, it produces soot, hence the use of particulate filters (DPF)
. It's likely the use of 2T oil became popular as the level of sulphur, a natural lubricity agent, has dramatically reduced over the years. This lack of lubricity was a big problem with the early common rail fuel systems.
. I can't see any logic to indicate the addition of 2T oil in tiny quantities can improve the combustion process but it does increase fuel lubricity.
. Carbon build-up can partially mask or block the injector nozzles which in turn alters the spray pattern to the detriment of the combustion process

Cheers Spike
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Hi Spike,

Good points.

One question I would like to throw in, if it was as easy as dropping in a few CCs of 2 stroke oil to bring such improvements, why don't the fuel companies add it?
surely this is because it would either be too expensive, not worth it or bad for the environment?

As for extra lubrication, then yes, I can see some benefits of that if the early fuels had more in than they do now, adding it would help with older cars.

and one final question, does it harm in any way to add it? Probably not, but would we know? Surely it would take a fuel technician to determine that, not us?

The debate continues?

Steve B
 
Hi Steve
There is a 'British Standard' for diesel (EN 590) and I suspect fuel companies will use the cheapest way to meet that spec. They already have premium fuels but most people won't pay the extra for the claimed 'improved fuel consumption and cleaner engine' properties.

I know engine manufacturers (I worked for one) go to great lengths to optimise cylinder bore roundness (torque plate honing) and piston ring sealing to prevent oil getting into the combustion chambers as it does have a detrimental effect on emissions. I assume 2T oil may have a similar effect but this would only be picked up on a full emissions test and not the basic MOT check.

The only harm would be a tiny increase in carbon build-up which is why some of us recommend that if you use 2T oil, go for the spec which the basic lab test was shown to produce the minimum deposits after combustion.

Cheers Spike
 
Also some of the info regarding spec is wrong IMO.

JASO FB is fine for cars without DPF. JASO FC is fine for cars with and without DPF. JASO FD is fine for cars WITHOUT DPF.

Price usually stops you using FD. The EGB and EGD is just the european standard and JASO is the Japanese standard. Read up loads about it lol. JASO is easier for me IMO.
 
^^^^ that is also my understanding too. In subjective use the addition of 2SO seems to bring better results with my A2 than in the Freelander with non-DPF 2.2 Ford/PSA diesel engine. Insofar as fuel itself is concerned i now almost exclusively use vpower/ultimate type premium fuels too.
 
spike said:
Hi Steve
There is a 'British Standard' for diesel (EN 590) and I suspect fuel companies will use the cheapest way to meet that spec. They already have premium fuels but most people won't pay the extra for the claimed 'improved fuel consumption and cleaner engine' properties.

I know engine manufacturers (I worked for one) go to great lengths to optimise cylinder bore roundness (torque plate honing) and piston ring sealing to prevent oil getting into the combustion chambers as it does have a detrimental effect on emissions. I assume 2T oil may have a similar effect but this would only be picked up on a full emissions test and not the basic MOT check.

The only harm would be a tiny increase in carbon build-up which is why some of us recommend that if you use 2T oil, go for the spec which the basic lab test was shown to produce the minimum deposits after combustion.

Cheers Spike
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Hi Spike

Thanks for a great contribution to the debate (as usual)

Many thanks

Steve B
 
I tried it for a while, can't say I came to a real conclusion as to whether it changed things or not and it was a darned faffy mess, so I stopped after running one bottle through.
I wish there was some genuine empirical evidence out there to say whether it makes a significant benefit or if it's just placebo. There's a lot of noise on the internet about it but it's all seemingly n=1 case reports rather than what I would call proof.
 
dan_b said:
I tried it for a while, can't say I came to a real conclusion as to whether it changed things or not and it was a darned faffy mess, so I stopped after running one bottle through.
I wish there was some genuine empirical evidence out there to say whether it makes a significant benefit or if it's just placebo. There's a lot of noise on the internet about it but it's all seemingly n=1 case reports rather than what I would call proof.
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Fair comment Dan and I do agree.

I prefer relying on the Vmax etc. fuels at the pump.

I always think that their laboratories should be slightly better at knowing what should be in the fuel rather than it just sounding like it might work and in what precise quantities etc?

I did have a really noisy diesel transit van and I bought some additive from Halfords that was supposed to quieten it down and it worked!!!

But to me the A2 diesel engine is not really that noisy, it certainly produces quite a sound, but to me that is strangely pleasant and "mechanical".

I hate visiting fuel stations anyway and the less time I have to spend in them the better (especially in the winter), so I think I will give the 2 stroke a miss.

But that is not criticising those that have found it to work for them, each to their own !!!

Steve B
 
I've run my car almost exclusively on Sainsbury's diesel these last 5.5 years, with the occasional dose of Millers diesel additive when I feel like I need to treat my car. Can't say I've ever really had any issues with excess soot or pollution and again I can't see/find enough evidence out there that says the premium diesel fuels are worth paying the significant premium for. Slightly different with petrol - the difference in performance with both my S2 and the A4 V6 quattro when running on Tesco 99RON was immediate and obvious.
 
dan_b said:
I've run my car almost exclusively on Sainsbury's diesel these last 5.5 years, with the occasional dose of Millers diesel additive when I feel like I need to treat my car. Can't say I've ever really had any issues with excess soot or pollution and again I can't see/find enough evidence out there that says the premium diesel fuels are worth paying the significant premium for. Slightly different with petrol - the difference in performance with both my S2 and the A4 V6 quattro when running on Tesco 99RON was immediate and obvious.
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My personal experience of premium fuels has impressed me.
I ran a Smart Brabus Coupe (no laughing, it was a great little car) for a while and doubted that the super unleaded premium fuels would make any difference. I was wrong, there was a measurable improvement in performance with super unleaded. I even tried a tank of "normal" unleaded and there was a measurable drop off in performance. (this was not just "seat of the pants" tests, they were electronically timed using Gtrac software.

For Diesel I have noticed no such performance improvement but I did see a slight improvement in MPG, but certainly not enough to cover the extra cost, BUT the cleaners in the fuel are important for diesel and so I have stuck with the high performance diesel fuels, more on the belief that they are better for the engine, long term, rather than any measurable difference.

So premium unleaded - As Dan says, definite yes, measurable improvements
For premium diesels - Debateable but I do believe that they are better, but I doubt you will find any financial benefit short term!!

Steve B
 
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