Squealing Starter Motor

Sorry for the thread revival but we have this noise on my missus car and today it packed up on her and then wouldn't start again, initially I thought it was the battery but jumping it made no difference, I tried to bump it in second gear(something I've done many a time in older cars) but it felt more like I was slamming the brakes on when I engaged the clutch and not like it was going to start. My mind went to this noise and I wondered is it possible the starter motor is seized and cashing it not to start or bump off??

I proceeded to remove the starter motor at the side of the road to see if it was seized....it wasn't I could turn it with my hand at this point I was a little deaf later and out of curiosity tried to bump it off again this time in third at more speed and without even a starter motor fitted, in my mind I thought it might work!! It didn't!! It did however seem to turn the engine and felt like it wanted to start which it didn't the last time so my questions are this,

Would it be possible to actually start a car without a starter motor fitted or are some viator electrical connections missing??

Why did it seem to turn over better without the starter motor on the second bump was it just due to third gear and extra speed??

Is it likely the starter motor is the problem??

If not.....WHAT??


Thanks guys.
 
When the starter motor wears out, it will spin if you turn it but most likely the carbon bushes have disintegrated, so you won't get any action. This is what happened on my wife's car and I have to say that I put my hand in my pocket for the £75 odd that a recon Bosch one costs. However, different people have different levels of personal pride in fixing things and different bank balances, so if you're determined to fix it, I would take the top off and inspect the bushes. You might be able to replace those for a few quid and a bit of handiwork.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
chill said:
Is it likely the starter motor is the problem??

If not.....WHAT??


Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

I would put my money on it being the Starter motor earth connection, this is a well known problem.

I have had a starter motor failure diagnosed at least twice where it has just been a poor earth and there was nothing wrong with the starter motor..

Trace the earth strap from the starter motor to the mounting point in the engine bay (Right hand side on one of the cross members high up in the engine bay, you might need to remove the passenger headlamp to see it)

However clean it looks, remove the bolt and clean the mating surfaces to get it nice an clean and a good earth.

An easy way to check if this is the cause without doing this is to use a battery jump lead, connect one end to the starter motor body and the other end to a solid metal earth on the metalwork under the bonnet. I would be very surporised if that does not make the starter motor work again.

Steve B
 
Cheers guys, as I already have the starter motor off there is a local electrical motor place near me I'm gonna take it up there and see what they'll charge to recon it, it's a Bosch one and a replacement Bosch is £200 only cheap ones I can find are non branded on eBay.

I'll trace the wire too and see about giving it a good clean up if this is a common fault, is the headlight easy to take off?

Cheers.

Still curious should I have been able to bump start it with starter removed?? Ends of wires were taped up.
 
chill said:
Cheers guys, as I already have the starter motor off there is a local electrical motor place near me I'm gonna take it up there and see what they'll charge to recon it, it's a Bosch one and a replacement Bosch is £200 only cheap ones I can find are non branded on eBay.

I'll trace the wire too and see about giving it a good clean up if this is a common fault, is the headlight easy to take off?

Cheers.

Still curious should I have been able to bump start it with starter removed?? Ends of wires were taped up.
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Yes, the bump start should have worked and you should be bump starting it in second gear, third doesn't spin the engine as quickly.

Not sure why you are reconditioning it, the starter motor may well be fine, try the earth point first before you do this and you might save a lot of money.

If the starter was making the usual squeal at the end of its spin then you can lubricate it, there is a "How to"! I believe.

The headlamp is only held on with two bolts (Splined)

Steve B
 
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Birchall said:
Yes, the bump start should have worked and you should be bump starting it in second gear, third doesn't spin the engine as quickly.

Not sure why you are reconditioning it, the starter motor may well be fine, try the earth point first before you do this and you might save a lot of money.

If the starter was making the usual squeal at the end of its spin then you can lubricate it, there is a "How to"! I believe.

The headlamp is only held on with two bolts (Splined)

Steve B
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Had the starter looked at and as suspected the guy said it was pretty shot although he did say it should have been capable of starting the car, bushes were worn, bearings had gone and something was bent anyway had it reconditioned and was optimistic but unfortunately it wasn't to be, it does more than it did before it turns over (although sounds weak) but doesn't fire, Bedfore there was completely nothing, I've tried jumping it but no use battery is ok as I whipped it off and started another a2 (that's been stood a year)and it fired straight up, I put it into gear and moved it a couple of feet when turning it over so doesn't seem like anything is seized??

I'm stuck now guys I've got a horrible feeling this could be some sort of electrical nightmare. I cleaned up all connections including that earth lead disconnected them and rubbed them down so who knows!!!
 
Which engine do you have? I ask people to put it in their signature so we can have information to hand.


Sarge
 
Hi, thanks to Birchall - discovered my starter motor issue is an earth problem. Was away and RAC called out who diagnosed starter motor needed replacing (and then obtained quote for replacement which thankfully I declined). Bump started to get home. Any advice on spanner required to get at that awkward bolt? 13mm I know but will offset ring fit? what length etc....
 
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alanfr said:
Hi, thanks to Birchall - discovered my starter motor issue is an earth problem. Was away and RAC called out who diagnosed starter motor needed replacing (and then obtained quote for replacement which thankfully I declined). Bump started to get home. Any advice on spanner required to get at that awkward bolt? 13mm I know but will offset ring fit? what length etc....
Click to expand...

Just used 2 hours to replace starter and airfilter. Very easy job on the 1.4 TDI 90.

75B4626C-A600-4A7A-B4F1-A1EDA0AB40AC.png

B2441698-2D98-47B2-A8DC-B5ADB32320A1.png
 
alanfr said:
Hi, thanks to Birchall - discovered my starter motor issue is an earth problem. Was away and RAC called out who diagnosed starter motor needed replacing (and then obtained quote for replacement which thankfully I declined). Bump started to get home. Any advice on spanner required to get at that awkward bolt? 13mm I know but will offset ring fit? what length etc....
Click to expand...


A socket and ratchet with a long extension piece will reach it, check cable isn't broken inside the sleeve at the bolt end.

Have a look here:
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?8294-Electrical-A2-earth-points




Sarge
 
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Olerype said:
Just used 2 hours to replace starter and airfilter. Very easy job on the 1.4 TDI 90.

View attachment 31941

View attachment 31942
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Just picking up on this thread. On the ATL do I have to remove under tray or can I access from above?

Looking at this I'm assuming tray was removed to get to filter?

Just bought a new starter is playing up in the cold weather as well as having the classic overrun. I might have a go at repairing once out.

Next thing on list I think is battery... Just not convinced it's performing plus I've no idea when it was installed. Looks like a black varta.
 
To replace air filter the under tray will need to be removed. Same goes for the starter motor too.
All the torque settings should be in my General Servicing thread to where there is a link in my signature below.


Sarge
 
It never fails to astound me that members will spend loads of money on a new starter just because of the squeal. Tank's has done it from around 5 years old - he's now 13. If your starter motor actually starts the engine well, then leave the motor as is - yes it startles bystanders as the noise hits after the engine has started, but that's part of the fun!! A shiny new starter will be squealing in a couple of years time - a reconditioned one probably less, but if it does what it's supposed to do, treat the noise as an added bonus - characterful if you will.
 
Skipton01 said:
It never fails to astound me that members will spend loads of money on a new starter just because of the squeal. Tank's has done it from around 5 years old - he's now 13. If your starter motor actually starts the engine well, then leave the motor as is - yes it startles bystanders as the noise hits after the engine has started, but that's part of the fun!! A shiny new starter will be squealing in a couple of years time - a reconditioned one probably less, but if it does what it's supposed to do, treat the noise as an added bonus - characterful if you will.
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Yup get this but car is really struggling to turn over in the cold also. I see the removal of that noise as a bonus.

Also just to add I've really bought the new starter as an insurance policy in case I can't resolve issues with current ... And that includes cleaning up the earthing point.

Thanks all.
 
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Our cheap from Euro car parts which i fitted about a year ago started to squeal again, put up with it for a while but after complaints from the Mrs, i pulled it out today, the cog and surrounding area was pretty dirty tbh, guessing it clutch debris or what ever.
removed the solenoid which let the cog flop in and out, cleaned then both and greased them up, there really wasn't much muck on them.
but some thin copper grease and put it back together, i used CV grease last time on the previous starter so will see how well this copper grease lasts.

i did consider drilling a small access hole to lube it in the future with some WD40, just poke the straw in and go but it may or may not of worked and its cold outside today so popped it back on and no squeal any more!

couple side notes.

bolts holding the brace to the starter top bolt are 13mm and the earth lead to the start lower bolt 13mm.

the long starter bolts once the above are off, 18mm

the lower bolt you really need to get at from the bottom, our under tray is a bit worn away there enough to pull it down and get some force on the spanner.
 
Squealing is caused by the pinion rubbing against the flywheel due to the former not retracting fully into the starter because of dirt/grit/metal particles between the motor shaft and the bushing immediately behind the pinion. To cure, remove the starter and pull out the pinion and spray WD40 between the shaft and the bushing. Continue to do so until the WD40 washed out is clean. If necessary, also clean the end of the shaft immediately behind the pinion with the finest wire wool.

RAB
 
Hi, the help, knowledge and camaraderie on this forum never ceases to amaze me, well done all. I am fairly new to A2 1.4tdi 75 ownership. 131k and good history with significant main dealer stamps. I am pleased with the car but missed the (intermittent) squeal on start up during test drive. I thought that this would be the starter motor however the car also makes a very similar sound when changing down and letting clutch out. Again, this is intermittent, and not in all gears. Seems to be worse when car is cold. Was also missed on test drive...... Could the cause of both sounds be due to the starter motor? Should I be worried and will urgent attention be needed?
 
Alcamo - I have both the occasional squealing starter motor and the second noise you describe - in my case, when changing down from 4th to 3rd while letting the clutch back in - as the engine braking effect occurs there is sometimes a short howl - I assume this is what you're describing. Will be interested to hear if any of the more knowledgeable folk here has an idea what it is. Not getting better, not getting worse, doesn't happen all the time, but more often when cold on the way to work.
 
Robin_Cox said:
Alcamo - I have both the occasional squealing starter motor and the second noise you describe - in my case, when changing down from 4th to 3rd while letting the clutch back in - as the engine braking effect occurs there is sometimes a short howl - I assume this is what you're describing. Will be interested to hear if any of the more knowledgeable folk here has an idea what it is. Not getting better, not getting worse, doesn't happen all the time, but more often when cold on the way to work.
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with the starter motor, that's for sure. Slipping clutch or failing clutch bearing?

RAB
 
Alcamo said:
Hi, the help, knowledge and camaraderie on this forum never ceases to amaze me, well done all. I am fairly new to A2 1.4tdi 75 ownership. 131k and good history with significant main dealer stamps. I am pleased with the car but missed the (intermittent) squeal on start up during test drive. I thought that this would be the starter motor however the car also makes a very similar sound when changing down and letting clutch out. Again, this is intermittent, and not in all gears. Seems to be worse when car is cold. Was also missed on test drive...... Could the cause of both sounds be due to the starter motor? Should I be worried and will urgent attention be needed?
Click to expand...

Hi Alcamo ... you could give the starter motor an overhaul, replacing the brushes and solenoid for less than £40 and maybe help eliminate one cause of the squeal and overrun on start up.
https://www.a2oc.net/community/index.php?threads/today-i.28729/page-213#post-333017
 
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